Government Overhaul

[Fry]

Its not realistic for gangsters to have fully automatic weapons in the city so the point could be brought up for both sides however that's just the way it is on FL and so to keep things competitive it's necessary for the government to have these guns. You don't get any money from playing as a government official or well you do but not near to the amount contra farming can get you so its fine for the government not to pay for their guns. Also lets think about this, a rebellion would not be able to come near to the amount of money the government would be getting and so it is realistic for the government to pay for it and not for a rebellion to arm their rebels, however if this feature was implemented for the rebels maybe they would get a pistol or something but even this I don't agree with because then it seems like we're devolving into dark rp and encouraging agg rp.

[Fultz]

Its not realistic for gangsters to have fully automatic weapons in the city so the point could be brought up for both sides however that's just the way it is on FL and so to keep things competitive it's necessary for the government to have these guns.

Im honestly confused. You are jumping back and forth to realism and "what is on on FL" which one would you rather have and stick with it. For both however, if your are talking about the mafia when you use gangsters as your noun, yes they do have fully automatic weapons. Are they the usual gun for a mafia in a real life situation? No. Is a cop running around with a m4 realistic? No. So in either boat of that argument it is voided. And on top of the on FL the corleone have their own personal weapon in the tommy gun suggesting they do use automatic weapons.

You don't get any money from playing as a government official or well you do but not near to the amount contra farming can get you so its fine for the government not to pay for their guns.

They get paid the same amount as everyone else and if you are suggesting contraband as a reasoning for SRU and officers to get free guns I am not going to agree with that. Contraband does not equal free weapons. And personally for me if we asked most members on FL if they would rather sit contraband or get free weapons I can almost guarantee which one they would prefer.

Also lets think about this, a rebellion would not be able to come near to the amount of money the government would be getting and so it is realistic for the government to pay for it and not for a rebellion to arm their rebels, however if this feature was implemented for the rebels maybe they would get a pistol or something but even this I don't agree with because then it seems like we're devolving into dark rp and encouraging agg rp.

This part also doesn't make any sense to me. Yes. A government would have more income to supply their troops. However, you can see that by the fact that they start with kevlar, ammo, vehicles, tazers, etc. These things aren't cheap and if you want to compare the availability of an AK47 to M4. There is a reason you do not see rebel groups running around with high tech weaponry. AKs are cheap and durable. And you finish this off with saying we are devolving into dark rp and encouraging agg rp. How are we devolving into DarkRP? How does one devolve into DarkRP? The only way I could see any server devolve into DarkRP is if they remove rules/ stop enforcing them. And I am sorry to inform you on this as well, you cannot remove aggressive rp unless you remove all guns. It is impossible.

[Fultz]

As much as I love seeing threads getting buried in about a day, I don't want to see this one do it. I would like to see more opinions from players as well as staff members. I have seen some looking and no reply yet. So far some of these issues have been all agreed upon and change is the next step if people agree. So let's actually get something done

[Envy]

1. Definitely agree with this as not gonna lie when I used to be Pres I would just give everyone 15 minutes. Not sure if the jail guard is a way around it but maybe have an arrest menu of some sort when arresting someone and it comes up with all possible reasons for arrests (Jaywalking, Carrying Weapon etc etc) and they all have pre-set times that can't be altered, For Example Jaywalking - 5mins, Carrying Weapon - 15mins.

2. Not really got anything to say on this as I agree with it.

3. I think the Pistols should be free but I do think there should be a small fee on accessing rifles.

4. This I 100% agree with, I always thought not having Arrests OOC was a problem. I understand a lot of people cry random arrest but there can be a lot of cases of RDA and it makes it tough to actually argue it.

[General Rickets]

Sounds good to me Drogas

[Fry]

I think the jail times are always going to be an issue due with the format that City RP uses unless something like Santos RP or other serious role play servers is implemented with proper guidelines for arrests. However maybe if we allowed the arrest times to be chosen by the police officers issuing the request this could maybe help the issue as the officer is able to gauge the citation etc. I was thinking about making a suggestion about this a while back but suggestions made hardly ever get added anyway so I didn't bother.

[Rookie (Isaac)]

1. Arrest times for more than 15 minutes.

This is a major issue and it stems from detachment of the president from the police force. It is worth noting that arrest warrants are sometimes made longer because everyone knows that when criminals leave jail they just reoffend again so putting them in jail for longer is just a way of giving the city some form of security from crime. I'm not supporting the act of 15 minute arrests, but it does limit the amount of time you have to arrest a person. For example, sometimes I arrest the same person 3 or 4 times for similar things because they just won't stop no matter how many times you arrest them and the 15 minutes gives me a break from them.

2. Unrealistic police.

Okay, this one is an easy one to support. One thing I would note is that FearRP should be adjusted to make people scared of a police officer during a traffic stop, I don't like to point my pistol at a window during a pull over but it is the only way to get someone to leave the vehicle without them driving off. This is obviously in some ways my fault for not even trying to order someone to step out without my pistol but otherwise people will pretty much ignore you and it's something you just do from experience. Overall I agree but the there is a reason police point weapons at you constantly during stops, maybe we should address that reason rather than treating the symptom of it.

3. Remove locker advantage.

Right, this is gonna be a long one :p . Before I start I want to make something clear, I play as police commonly so I do have a bias towards them as you may have guessed but I have played as criminal quite a bit in the past (though not as much as a lot of you). So looking at it from the criminal perspective, free weapons is awful, police can just shoot me over and over again without fear of losing anything and they still get paid at the end of the day. From the police perspective free weapons is great, I can get shot, grab new weapons, and be back in after 10 minutes of patrolling. 

Now from my perspective this is again just a symptom of a bigger problem, I don't believe big shoot outs should happen (at the very least, not to the extent that they do now). My view comes from the fact that the whole idea of a criminal (rebel/Corleone) on Fearless seems to be very wrong.

Criminals don't build bases with 10 foot walls, they don't have military grade weapons (at least not where I come from), this isn't just semi-unrealistic, it's total fantasy. Rebels are meant to be the disorganized bunch of low level criminals who might be involved in the drug trade at the lowest level, Corleones are meant to be the high level criminals who own the drug trade, they bribe high level officials to turn a blind eye and generally get involved in a more political side of criminality, i.e. trying to win the people over either through fear, or through treating them better than the government. This is so far from what happens in the game that it's laughable, rebels and Corleones are interchangeable in game and tend to share the same agenda of fighting as much as possible while making as much money as possible. If criminals acted as "underground" jobs are meant to then they wouldn't need military grade weaponry and neither would the police.

I think the reasons for the misinterpretation of criminality on fearless is caused by the contraband system and the mentality of the community.

The contraband system is awful, all you have to do is place down some weird looking machine and magically, money appears out of nowhere! Drug labs should produce drugs, money printers shouldn't exist, I won't get too detailed into this to avoid going too far off topic but the basic idea of being able to sit in an area for a certain about of time and have money appear is just dumb, more over it doesn't effect everyday citizens as criminality does in real life. In real life a criminal act is criminal because it hurts society or members of a society in some way, for example, drugs cause problems with addiction (and premature death) which limits the ability of a person to work (and/or pay tax), having a person not work or pay tax hurts society as others have to make up the lost revenue through higher taxes. In EvoCity, tax doesn't matter to anyone, drugs/contraband don't matter to anyone, and addiction doesn't exist. No one liking or disliking the criminals causes them to just exist, no one knows why the police want to destroy the contraband it's just a fact of Evocity that doesn't get questioned, why should police stop people producing contraband if they only get a fraction of the money made by it, they may as well let them continue as it doesn't bring harm to people and they don't die trying to destroy it. My point here is that if contraband took away something, such as income, from the people of Evocity then it would actually give people, including citizens, a reason to want it destroyed.

Now, the mentality of the community. This community right now is focused on aggressive roleplay which is thinly veiled by the excuse of having passive areas and jobs. It should be pretty obvious to anyone who was on yesterday evening(10/04/2018) that this is true, when two gangs turned the inner city (a public area) into a war zone. Playing a police officer commonly I find it's impossible to go more than two minutes without a shots fired call going out or coming under fire myself, this is not addressed by admins at all and even following rule changes AggressiveRP continues on a higher level than ever. I haven't been able to do proper passive policing in a busy server for a long time, and it really is destroying other passive roleplays when the police can't respond to them because we're all busy at a raid while they have a random citizen harassing them, mugging them, or stealing their car. If police can't respond to those calls on a regular basis then it defeats the whole point of the police, we may as well be an extension of SRU. My point here: AggressiveRP groups run the server, police may as well be a paramilitary organisation at this point.

So finally onto the issue you raised. Police need free guns right now, police are generally always the aggressors in engagement, if criminals had to commonly raid the nexus then maybe I would agree with you but they don't and police have to raid strong defenses. The only times when police aren't the aggressors is generally when they get shot during a traffic stop without warning, this would be an annoying thing for anyone if we also lost $4000 in gear - imagine being a criminal and being shot when you get out your car and losing your gear, pretty dumb. Criminals on the other hand do not have any other responsibilities, they generally are completely defensive giving them a massive advantage over the police. Now I can agree with criminals getting free weapons IF they are limited to weapons that suit their role, i.e. mac10s, glocks. Seeing criminals use advanced weaponry while in a gang is just painful. If you limit the weapons on criminals then maybe police can go back to just having USPs with the SRU also having similar limitations. There is also a more direct, simple solution to this - surrender, the mentality of a WWII imperial Japanese soldier is admirable but unrealistic - you don't want to lose your weapons? spend 15 minutes in jail instead. This is a basic system that should happen in the game but instead criminals have the death before dishonour mentality which limits roleplay and promotes AggressiveRP.

In conclusion, while free weapons give the police an advantage, this is limited by the criminal's defensive bonus. Criminals have a way out with all their weapons while fighting police but often refuse to use it. I think this issue is just an effect of ridiculous criminal expectations and criminal systems - such as contraband, as well as a rampant aggressive mentality in the community which is ignored or excused by many members.

4. Make arrests ooc again.

Yes, I think the admins should be able to deal with this as staff numbers and activity seem to be increasing.

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P.s. Apologies for the poor writing, somehow they let me in at A-level ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Fultz]

-snip-

My thoughts exactly, this coming from another person who spent most of his time as a Police officer. Traffic stops are rare to happen and it's even more rare to end peacefully unless we use fearRP and hold an M4.

The atmosphere and way people act now has forced the police to need this much firepower. As sad and possibly unrealistic as it is, it's required to stand a chance against the criminals.

I do not understand why you are re-upping on this point.You could have instead responded to my reply to these points and actually contributed to the conversation. That would have been a lot more productive.

[Divey]

He's allowed to state whether he agrees to something or not, surely as the creator of the discussion you want to hear whether people agree or disagree to certain things? Nevertheless, an interesting discussion that isn't being ignored.

[Fultz]

He's allowed to state whether he agrees to something or not, surely as the creator of the discussion you want to hear whether people agree or disagree to certain things? Nevertheless, an interesting discussion that isn't being ignored.

Never said he couldn't? All I said was he should actually contribute to the conversation by responding to my reply to that instead of just re-agreeing. If he agrees with the points Grayhawk posted (Which once again never said he couldn't) he could have instead replied to my post which provided my ideas built of his post and then he could have stated why those ideas are good or bad and then went into why Grayhawks original ideas are better suited for Fearless.

Like you said, as the creator, I want to know whether people agree or disagree, but I want actual conversation. Not wasted posts. I feel like his comment was nothing to build off of, and what I just stated in this post above is 100000 times better. But hey you could always show your opinion on this topic as well instead of coming in here defending his post.