Government Overhaul
#1
Alright, lads, I know a lot of you really enjoy the government where it is it, but I feel some things really need to be changed for the better of Fearless as a whole. Some of these suggestions are bringing back old ideas, and some are new.

1. Arrest times for more than 15 minutes.

This is, in my opinion, one of the biggest complaints I have with current FL. The number of times people are being arrested for 15 minutes is through the roof. The problem with it is it seems to currently be the default for all arrests. You get caught jaywalking, 15 minutes, if you hit another car, 15 minutes, etc. The solution to this problem prior was you needed to have a jail guard to allow arrests higher than 5 minutes. We could either make this rule come back and have a jail guard or enact some rule to enhance realism where presidents must use accurate jail times for crimes.

2. Unrealistic police.

With the addition of the weapon locker, we have seen the government gain a huge increase in firepower. This is in some cases is a really good thing, in other cases, it has made evocity look like a very unrealistic place. Police officers should not be walking around with automatic rifles. Officers shouldn't be doing routine traffic stops pointing an m4 at the vehicle. My suggestion to fix this is police officers should only be able to wield automatic weapons while going to a raid, but can only wield pistols while doing routine things such as patrolling.

3. Remove locker advantage.

Going on top of the problem the weapon locker gives, the other is the fact members of government get free weapons. On top of giving them free weapons, they are also undroppable. My personal problem with this is if I get on the server and just feel like getting into gunfights, I would much prefer to go SRU instead of doing anything else because going SRU have no negatives because I don't lose anything. If I were to instead raid as a criminal, Corleone, or rebel, I am risking my own weapons, kevlar, and ammo. My solution to this is either make SRU and police pay for the weapons in the locker or when using the locker, it uses your weapons from your inventory, as well as make them droppable.

4. Make arrests ooc again.

Alright. Here is the final problem that needs solving. Bull shit arrests are at an all-time high. Why is this? Because there is no negative outcome from me just arresting you for "disrespect" or anything else I want to make up. Now I am not saying every arrest warrants an @ call, however, the ones that have zero reasoning do. Being arrested for 15 minutes is bad enough. But whenever you are arrested by a "corrupt" officer and you cannot contest it because you have to handle it IC is the icing on the cake. I understand the concept of trying to deal with it IC. But what are you really accomplishing by doing that? You might get a reasonable president who demotes the cop, but that only happens every once in a while. Normally you get ignored or the officer gets off, or the president who arrests you gets off. If the arrests is BS and you can prove it, it should go to an admin situation. I do not honestly see why this is still a thing and honestly, I see it as staff being lazy and not wanting to answer a couple more @ calls. But that last part is just me as @ calls for random arrest take only a couple seconds to tell if it is bs or not.

These are the ideas I think should be implemented. Discuss this some may be drastic, others can be further evaluated. As I think the government needs an overhaul on these focus points.
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#2
Agree with all of your points above, can’t fault this post and can’t really add much else because you’ve hit the nail on the head.

+1
#3
I do not agree with you on the locker advantage as its not the officer himself who are supposted to buy the weapons. The government should be the one who needs to pay for them. Criminalsn should pay for their guns as thats what they do in real life as well and of course its not cheap. Start easy instead and start to grow an underground business instead and make a roleplay out of it. Underground RP can be much better than Passive, Government, Aggressive and Shop Keepers but it just needs to be done in the correct way. Try to do a Pablo Escobar roleplay or similar. You can involve a lot of people like DEA, members for your underground RP, Government who needs to do more checkpoints, search buildings, go undercover and make a good plan, Shop Keepers can be involved and poor Citizens who lives in a poor village. There are many options here but at our stage, I only see shoot, kill, get killed, respawn and repeat. I totally agree with you on all of the other points.

NB: Heay Grammar issues with this text. Will edit when I come home
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  • Grayhawk
#4
(03-02-2018, 09:25 AM)Zona Wrote: I do not agree with you on the locker advantage as its not the officer himself who are supposted to buy the weapons. The government should be the one who needs to pay for them. Criminalsn should pay for their guns as thats what they do in real life as well and of course its not cheap. Start easy instead and start to grow an underground business instead and make a roleplay out of it. Underground RP can be much better than Passive, Government, Aggressive and Shop Keepers but it just needs to be done in the correct way. Try to do a Pablo Escobar roleplay or similar. You can involve a lot of people like DEA, members for your underground RP, Government who needs to do more checkpoints, search buildings, go undercover and make a good plan, Shop Keepers can be involved and poor Citizens who lives in a poor village. There are many options here but at our stage, I only see shoot, kill, get killed, respawn and repeat. I totally agree with you on all of the other points.

NB: Heay Grammar issues with this text. Will edit when I come home

Dont need to edit for grammar. Its all good m8. 

I would agree that the government would be the ones supplying the weapons, however, on FL they arent. You are making the underground side have to have a roleplaying background while the government is "The government pays for them." That argument would be similar to if I was roleplaying as a rebel I should be able to get free AKs and such because the Rebellion I am apart of would be supplying me the weaponry. I am not saying all weapons should be in this case for the government. Before the locker, the standard equips you received was Ump for SRU and usp for officers. With the special M4 for sergeant and mp5 for the commander. I feel more that if we are going to go down the road that the government supplies weapons for free. Then rebels and Corleone should get them for free because they would be in the same boat that an everyday rebel would not be going out and purchasing weapons for himself, they would be supplied. If we would even do something like that maybe you would see an increase in those jobs being used instead of everyone getting free weaponry from the government.

I honestly like that solution as well as I think about it. If the government gets free guns they should as well.
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  • Zona
#5
I agree with your first and final points there, massively.
With the second point, it sounds like a simple rule impliment that should be made to help with realism. Issue there is (As I stated on another small rule suggestion) that there are so many small rules, everyone only pays attention to the major rules and therefore it wouldn't be enforced, nor would it be followed. As nice as it would be, the server simply won't follow the level of realism we would like as a government. (A police whitelist would be a god-send)
For the third point, I agree to police paying for the weapons, however if we are going to have to pay for our weapons I feel as though a pay increase would be handy due to the amounting cost that raids would bring as when there is a semi-full server or a full server the number of raids increase so much that they become constant as to one after another with not even a two minute gap in the middle. Ontop of this, we should get the option to equip our personal weapons from our inventory as we are having to pay for locker weapons, why not give us the freedom for our own weapons we paid for
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#6
(03-02-2018, 10:05 AM)BasicallyMental Wrote: I agree with your first and final points there, massively.
With the second point, it sounds like a simple rule impliment that should be made to help with realism. Issue there is (As I stated on another small rule suggestion) that there are so many small rules, everyone only pays attention to the major rules and therefore it wouldn't be enforced, nor would it be followed. As nice as it would be, the server simply won't follow the level of realism we would like as a government. (A police whitelist would be a god-send)
For the third point, I agree to police paying for the weapons, however if we are going to have to pay for our weapons I feel as though a pay increase would be handy due to the amounting cost that raids would bring as when there is a semi-full server or a full server the number of raids increase so much that they become constant as to one after another with not even a two minute gap in the middle. Ontop of this, we should get the option to equip our personal weapons from our inventory as we are having to pay for locker weapons, why not give us the freedom for our own weapons we paid for

Whitelists are something that FL has never put into consideration and honestly at this point I do not find them worthwhile with the state FL is in. You say it is a small rule that will not be enforced, I am not sure about that one. I mean if you think about it, pulling an automatic rifle at a car that was speeding is FailRP and in such does not need to be stated. Most tiny rules like that are simply covered by player to player action. A "hey man, you aren't supposed to be pointing an M4 at vehicles for stops" normally does the case.

I honestly do not think a pay raise is required if we would go down the route of having to pay for the guns. In reality you do not have to pay that much money for the weapons. An m4 is only 3500 dollars. And that is not saying you have to use an m4 everytime as an officer. You can use other weapons as well such as the mp5, ump, and shotguns. The other reason I am against a pay raise is another reason paying for guns is a good thing is it will make people more cautious in raids. You will not have officers just running in with no fear of losing anything. If you are looking at losing 4k worth of items, you will be more cautious in going into combat.
#7
I really like you bringing this up, Fultz. As someone who has played cop for about 85% of his 650h on fearless over the last 6 years (I don’t mean this in anyway snobbishly but just to emphasize that I am a government RP fanboy) I would like to offer maybe a cop’s perspective on this:

1. Arrest times for more than 15minutes.
I fully agree with you that this is an issue. I personally think it also lies with the lack of communication between police and presidents. I have wished to be able to put in a recommended time in the warrant and often do in the reason, but it’s mostly ignored. The president doesn’t know what exactly is going on and just, out of simplicity, issues a maximum sentence.
I agree that bringing back the jail guard requirement might solve the issue, although it pains me to say this because I enjoy the broader times you can give for different crimes. It doesn't feel a lot like a punishment getting 15min in jail, it’s just standard. When I am Police sergeant and have no president, then I usually hand out 2-4min sentences for petty crimes. I think that’s fine and should be the standard.
All in all, I think that we should think about WHY we are arresting PLAYERS. It’s not because we want to make them suffer, but because that’s the fun of playing cop. After that arrest baton hits, we forget about it. Unless someone has murdered half the server and arresting him becomes a vendetta, who really cares how long that player, you just busted for j-walking, sits in a cell?

2. Unrealistic Police
I so agree with you on this. It is unrealistic, and oh-boy would I prefer not to be carrying an M4 around. But sadly, with our current atmosphere on fearless, it’s necessary. Every single player is wielding an AK. We must fear every time we pull someone over that they will just get out and massacre us because we wanted to give them a 50$ ticket for running a red light. If you really want to fix this issue, then we must minimize the number of firearms on the server in general. Because without our m4s we would be pushed over by everyone, making the government no real challenge to the crime world.
I also think that our current balance of raids is quite good. When we are raiding a criminal base, it is very uncertain who will win. At least in my experience, the number of wins and losses have is about equal. When it comes to a successful nexus raid, it is usually a very well executed raid by the criminals, out-smarting the government, and that’s what I think it should be. How often do you hear about the raid of a government building in RL? Very, very rarely. Raiding the nexus should be a crown-achievement in my opinion and I think our current balance allows this. I remember the times we only had UMPs and pistols. There were 4-5 nexus raids a day. You would have groups of 4 renting out the offices on 2d and waiting for a law to come out that they could challenge and boom: Nexus Raid. After winning, they would return to the office and wait for the next one.

3. Weapons Locker
I cannot agree with you on this. Yes, we get free weapons, but for good reason. The major difference between cops and criminals is that the criminals can choose when, where, how and most importantly: if. Cops must respond to any raid, shooting, robbery if they can. Upon arrival, we are at the mercy of whatever is in store for us. When that is resolved by either death or arrest, we go to the next call. Police are engaged in shootings 24/7 because everyone is armed. We don’t get to choose what the situation is and against how many we are fighting. Criminals can choose when to strike, where to strike and what to strike, while the cops have the respond to it, even if we know it’s probably a lost cause.

4.
I can fully understand your issue with this. Problem is: a lot of people cry random arrest. If I had to wait for an admin every time someone does, I would be spending a good 15min on every single arrest. In some cases, I do understand it and when I read the warrants in chat sometimes I question why the president is accepting these ridiculous warrant reasons. I think we must find a middle-ground between having the ability to involve an admin but flushing out the "unwarranted" outburst of random arrest.

I am curious on what Others think, I am, again, very happy that you brought this up.
Grayhawk,
Loves gentle souls who stop when pulled over

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#8
(03-02-2018, 11:00 AM)Grayhawk Wrote: I really like you bringing this up, Fultz. As someone who has played cop for about 85% of his 650h on fearless over the last 6 years (I don’t mean this in anyway snobbishly but just to emphasize that I am a government RP fanboy) I would like to offer maybe a cop’s perspective on this:

1. Arrest times for more than 15minutes.
I fully agree with you that this is an issue. I personally think it also lies with the lack of communication between police and presidents. I have wished to be able to put in a recommended time in the warrant and often do in the reason, but it’s mostly ignored. The president doesn’t know what exactly is going on and just, out of simplicity, issues a maximum sentence.
I agree that bringing back the jail guard requirement might solve the issue, although it pains me to say this because I enjoy the broader times you can give for different crimes. It doesn't feel a lot like a punishment getting 15min in jail, it’s just standard. When I am Police sergeant and have no president, then I usually hand out 2-4min sentences for petty crimes. I think that’s fine and should be the standard.
All in all, I think that we should think about WHY we are arresting PLAYERS. It’s not because we want to make them suffer, but because that’s the fun of playing cop. After that arrest baton hits, we forget about it. Unless someone has murdered half the server and arresting him becomes a vendetta, who really cares how long that player, you just busted for j-walking, sits in a cell?

2. Unrealistic Police
I so agree with you on this. It is unrealistic, and oh-boy would I prefer not to be carrying an M4 around. But sadly, with our current atmosphere on fearless, it’s necessary. Every single player is wielding an AK. We must fear every time we pull someone over that they will just get out and massacre us because we wanted to give them a 50$ ticket for running a red light. If you really want to fix this issue, then we must minimize the number of firearms on the server in general. Because without our m4s we would be pushed over by everyone, making the government no real challenge to the crime world.
I also think that our current balance of raids is quite good. When we are raiding a criminal base, it is very uncertain who will win. At least in my experience, the number of wins and losses have is about equal. When it comes to a successful nexus raid, it is usually a very well executed raid by the criminals, out-smarting the government, and that’s what I think it should be. How often do you hear about the raid of a government building in RL? Very, very rarely. Raiding the nexus should be a crown-achievement in my opinion and I think our current balance allows this. I remember the times we only had UMPs and pistols. There were 4-5 nexus raids a day. You would have groups of 4 renting out the offices on 2d and waiting for a law to come out that they could challenge and boom: Nexus Raid. After winning, they would return to the office and wait for the next one.

If what I suggested did become a thing, yes, deaths from petty criminals who kill you over traffics stops would become harder to deal with. However, killing you over traffic stops is RDM as it is unless they are on the run from worse crimes. 

I am not questioning the raid situation, that is why I believe that they should only be weilding these bigger weapons when going to a raid.  Could be changed for when there is a dictator since you are looking at nexus raids happening. I do not want this to give criminals an advantage, but remove the police from walking around with m4s. If it were set up that you can use the weapon locker to get bigger guns if there is a lockdown. I feel like that would be a feasible fix that could potentially fix the issue.


3. Weapons Locker
I cannot agree with you on this. Yes, we get free weapons, but for good reason. The major difference between cops and criminals is that the criminals can choose when, where, how and most importantly: if. Cops must respond to any raid, shooting, robbery if they can. Upon arrival, we are at the mercy of whatever is in store for us. When that is resolved by either death or arrest, we go to the next call. Police are engaged in shootings 24/7 because everyone is armed. We don’t get to choose what the situation is and against how many we are fighting. Criminals can choose when to strike, where to strike and what to strike, while the cops have the respond to it, even if we know it’s probably a lost cause.

If you feel like free guns that are undroppable for the government is needed. I suggest we do the same for the corleones and the rebels. Rebels and Corleones are in the same boat of not knowing how many they are fighting against when it comes to citizen groups. I still personally think making the weapons not free and you would either have to buy the gun from the locker or use your own gun is the simplier solution. But if we are going to keep the guns free, I suggest we allow the other groups to get free guns as well.

4.
I can fully understand your issue with this. Problem is: a lot of people cry random arrest. If I had to wait for an admin every time someone does, I would be spending a good 15min on every single arrest. In some cases, I do understand it and when I read the warrants in chat sometimes I question why the president is accepting these ridiculous warrant reasons. I think we must find a middle-ground between having the ability to involve an admin but flushing out the "unwarranted" outburst of random arrest.

In my time, the way I use to deal with @ calls for random arrest. I would go to the player arrested (In jail) and hear him out. I would then pm the officer who arrested him, and judge their response. I would then unarrest or keep depending on the case. It still flushes out the unwarranted ones because you go to them and whenever they dont supply any reasoning, you just leave.

I am curious on what Others think, I am, again, very happy that you brought this up.

I am curious as well and honestly thought this was an excellent starting point for all points. All of these issues are easy fixes once we can all come to an agreement as to what they are. I just want to make it clear this is not a suggestion thread, but a discussion. I feel like discussions get a better response on issues instead of just making them myself in a suggestion. Greyhawk is the perfect example. I see cops from the outside and he just provided great reasoning from the inside. IMO the best option to fix issues.
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  • General Rickets
#9
I agree with all of your points except for the third one. I really don't think it is necessary to make officers pay for the weapons as in real-life, police officers do not have to play for their weapons. Although, I do believe there should be a limit as to how many officers can carry assault rifles as every police officer should not have a M4 strapped to their back unless needed, I think rifles should be removed from police and they keep their pistols and the SRU keep the heavy guns, or there could be a system where you ask permission from the police sergeant to carry heavy arsenal (with limited officers being able to do this). This would benefit the SRU a lot as they would get a lot more calls and will not render the job useless anymore. A few years back when the police sergeant was the only person in the police force who spawned with a rifle by default was when the SRU was an active job.
Regards,
Panda
NOT AN Administrator
#10
(03-02-2018, 06:27 PM)Panda Wrote: I agree with all of your points except for the third one. I really don't think it is necessary to make officers pay for the weapons as in real-life, police officers do not have to play for their weapons. Although, I do believe there should be a limit as to how many officers can carry assault rifles as every police officer should not have a M4 strapped to their back unless needed, I think rifles should be removed from police and they keep their pistols and the SRU keep the heavy guns, or there could be a system where you ask permission from the police sergeant to carry heavy arsenal (with limited officers being able to do this). This would benefit the SRU a lot as they would get a lot more calls and will not render the job useless anymore. A few years back when the police sergeant was the only person in the police force who spawned with a rifle by default was when the SRU was an active job.

You bring up two very interesting things. 1 being the SRU issue the weapons brings and the 2. idea of having a limit.

I still believe that if we are going to be giving free weapons to the government, I believe we should do the same for Rebels and Corleone. Since an everyday rebel won't be going out to buy his own guns either. 

Before officers couldn't even equip m4s. They could only use mp5s and shotguns. I honestly think that is better anyway. And if it would even go to something like that you would then have an SRU team become a job again that is in fact needed. However, that is not really where the discussion began, and I don't want to lose pace on the rest. It is a good idea in my eyes as well.

I want someone's thoughts on letting Rebels and Corleone having free guns as well if we allow the government on the same basis. everyday mafia members and rebels would not have to self-supply themselves with weapons. I personally feel like it is a good idea if we continue to allow government free guns. And if we would do that, I would guarantee a huge increase in people going rebel as well as Corleone instead of its dead state at this current time.
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