The fine line in FearRP

[Dauntless]

The rule needs to be re-written completely imo. As seen above there seems to be 2 sides to this rule, back when I first joined FL the rule was that having a lowered weapon counted as having no weapon out thus FearRP still applied.

[Rebdogg]

The FearRp rule is really complicated and I think nearly everyone has their own spin on it, what I may suggested however is make it so when a gun is lowered it's in "safe mode", this will clear up the issue about if the gun is lowered as, with this being implied, the weapon will now be in safe mode and unable to fire until you take it out of safe mode and start pointing it. With this in mind if someone has their gun lowered (safe mode) and you get your gun out this renders them in a situation where they are not ready to fire due to their weapon not being ready so the only means for them to survive is to now "Holster" (DVN's definition) their weapon and fully remove the weapon form their possession. Lets say the player in this situations decides to take their gun out of safe mode and start pointing after you come along and got them under gun point and give them orders too drop their weapon, then this will be clearly FearRp breaking due to the fact that they are not fearing life threatening situations as they put themselves and people around then in danger.

[King Kickass]

I think even a brain dead monkey can follow the rule because that's how we treat new players and if they so much as scratch their ass the wrong way they get a ban. All of a sudden when players with more hours break the rule we have to call in hypotheticals and realism and all this crap. The rules the rule.

Just look at the fearrp bans
https://www.fearlessrp.net/bans/index.php

It's obviously easy to ban people for it but it suddenly becomes a complex issue and the situation needs to be examined like a where's Waldo picture.

[DVN]

Why do people keep referring to Finn's ban/report? I clearly stated that is to be used as context for this discussion. Punishments given for that are appropriate in my eyes, it's the rule itself I'm trying to talk about.

I don't get how that makes any sense to you Spear, or anyone else personally.

Having your gun lowered in any situation means it's still ready for immediate use, it would take a split second to rise the weapon to a position where you could open fire on someone. The firearm is NOT holstered, holstering the weapon would be putting it away in a concealed position/holder e.g. your hands/keys in this instance.

For me, having the ability to put someone under FearRP when a gun is in 'safe mode' causes all sorts of issues, as seen in the past with Finn's and Hitman's reports/situations. It is too much of a fine line.

Not to mention, when sprinting the gun is lowered anyway, which again causes more issues as it's exactly what we saw in the video from Finn's report. Again, Finn's report isn't the aim of this thread at all, it's to give a better perspective on what I'm saying and can be used as an example.

[King Kickass]

You dierected us to the thread in the op so we thought you wanted us to refer to it.

[Floodify]

The very presence of a weapon does impact the RP environment as such that when even if its lowered citizens would take more caution and be more uncomfortable depending on the context.

But a lowered weapon does not have any leverage in terms of FearRP initiating and to compare a pointed weapon with a lowered one is absurd, especially when the pointed weapon had initiated fearRP first. To allow a lowered weapon to be used as a fearRP tool would be extremely abuse-able and would be much like an officer pointing his gun at every citizen he walks by, because that's the purpose of fearRP. During my all time on Fearless this has been followed by myself and other (staff) so I am unsure why this has arisen as a problem now - do note that the new rule set clarified this even more.

FearRP rule is dull in every aspect, no doubt. But as there has yet to be an efficient solution to this a compromise with having "pointed" even clearer in the rules were made. FearRP is plainly used on Fearless to have individuals get under command, but the general presence of a weapon will theoretically impact a character's decision but a pointed one being far more aggressive and limiting the space for an "argue" RP (pardon my phrasing there, I am too tired to find the appropriate word). A lowered weapon is in a far more passive stand whilst a pointed weapon is direct and initiates something.

As Spear said, theoretically a security guard would have FearRP advantage in a whole store even if a gun man came in and pointed a gun at him - doesn't make any sense. In any realistic situation the lowered weapon would be of disadvantage and ordered to be removed, only reason I could see it being useful is if the gunman turns around and is not a threat anymore - then the security guard would be able to take his shot behind the man's back. Having a lowered weapon would be too vague and fearRP is explicitly used to determine when you must follow a command and it uses the most aggressive way to initiate that - a pointed weapon.

These discussions are healthy to have so I applaud DVN and any other serious debaters that have posted on this thread. Thank you.

[Marty]

The police are detaining a suspect, having him handcuffed beside the road. All these cops are having their weapons lowered around the area. Now the suspects fellow rebel witnessed this situation from a distance and decides to get a cop under gunpoint in order to make them release the suspect and leave the area. Will you not be able to put any of these cops under fearRP due to them having lowered weapons?

I have seen someone punished with a weapons bl for doing exactly this BTW. Probably not the best example because your friend or colleague being placed under arrest apparently isn't a good enough reason for that lol.

O/T

I personally think the rules should be changed to a more common sense approach. Otherwise I think what we are gonna see now is all the cops walking around with their guns drawn and not in safe stance. And that's just gonna look shit

[DVN]

-Snip-

Thanks for that Flood, the comments you've made to make sense too. I think it's just with the given previous situations the problem rose to my mind with the whole thing being dealt with on a frame by frame basis as seen in videos etc.

In both ways there are downsides, but come to think of it having weapons in safety mode count towards FearRP especially in the situation examples you gave would probably be rather unfair.

I'd like to thank everyone for their input too, and if anyone else would like to say anything I'd be happy to still discuss this

[Awestruck]

I'd shit myself just at the thought of pointing a weapon at someone who had their gun lowered.

[Greed^]

-snip-

What you say is irrelevant flood, let me refer u to what a user posted earlier in this thread:

"If a person has their weapon lowered, Fear RP cannot be triggered, for the weapon is ready to be used, and the time that it takes to aim and shoot, is less than a second; much faster than if you were to take it out from your holster, meaning that you could outshoot your oponent, therefore Hitman hasn't broken any rules, having provided evidence that supports his story of not metagaming." - Holdem 2016

Source: https://www.fearlessrp.net/showthread.ph...#pid564476