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Steam Name: SpaghettiFTW

SteamID: STEAM_0:1:76673673

BanID: 93816

Ban Reason

Staff Member: jonas

Involved users
(nvm), MonkeyDustFTW, Turtle

Why should you be unbanned?
Because what I did was not 1 bit FearRP. There was not one thing throughout the entire situation up until Turtles death that said to us they have other hostages, do not blast him. We started shooting him because he lost sight and visual of the hostage, thus removing the threat of the officer who features in this video being killed. The only time a second or third hostage is @ 0:47 - When its in discord, again this is not at all said to me. At no point did you inform ANY of us or the government through methods such as /request that they had more than 1 hostage, we only knew of this one. When Turtle radioed in to his friends, they confirmed they had multiple and Turtle had yet another chance to inform me but still failed on his part. At the 1:40 mark - Turtle loses visual contact with the hostage giving the 4 of us a clear chance to neutralise, which is exactly what we did. Only at his death does he announce other hostages, and im fairly certain theres nothing we can do about it then - may i also add that later on these 2 hostages were freed and alive. How can you keep FearRp on a man you cannot see?  

TL;DR - The additional hostages were not once declared to us, due to Turtle failing to do this. Only at the end - literally at the time he dies and is still speaking does he mention he has more hostages (literally only saying hostages) but we cannot do anything about it then. We also didnt break Fearrp by shooting him because he doesnt have a line of sight on the hostage and us having a clear chance to kill him.

pr video --
Oh also, may i add look in the console at the end, We didnt even kill you - Ruthlezz (your own team member did)
Hello SpaghettiFTW,

You guys could hear at around 01:42 that Turtle said he would bring the hostageS around for negotiation. This is the only indication of the multiple hostages you guys heard (from the video's evidence). Turtle was obviously speaking to his team and that is were he brought his hostage. He said as an example in the start that he would move the hostage over to behind the farm because it was were his team was. When he put the hostage towards the other teammates (whom you personally said weren't in sight) you should assume that his life is still in danger and thus you should not even engage. You engaged knowing that the hostage was around his mates and knowing that they were most likely armed because he was. In regards to the fact that Ruthlezz kill him, that does not change anything you initiated the situation by shooting at Turtle. He most likely died in a crossfire shot between you and Ruthlezz.

You therefore broke FearRP by engaging at the guy because you knew the hostage was with his teammates. I believe you should know better man. Your ban was extended by Kippsee to Christmas day (4 months, 9 days & 7 hours.) I believe that this ban is valid and thus I don't support an unban, but because I am only a trial-admin I am not allowed to conclude this UBR, and I will leave this case to whomever decides to conclude it.

Many thanks,
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Hello, I do believe a just someone saying "Hostages" should not count as people declaring other hostages - because its hard to pick up on - therefore turtle shouldve specifically said earlier on "we have 2 other hostages - we are bringing this one to them" or something like that so then we know for certain there is more hostages. The hostage was no one near his mates as otherwise surely we would of been able to see them? They were also behind a hill not visible to us or the cop to them - the friends which we hadnt seen the entire situation only ended up managing to kill their own guy with a random spray of like 6 bullets, their shooting ending past that with no risk of life at all to any of our guys. From my POV turtles last words basically arent even audible due to noise of voice radio and other people speaking etc. you can watch that here.
Hello thanks for posting your POV.

You actually can see the other people at around 0:52 (I saw this at first glance). Turtle had already informed you there were multiple people behind there (the part before your POV video, where he said he would move the hostage over to his mates behind the farm), so why would you shoot if there was a hostage going towards them and they were heavily armed? That situation could've easily led to the hostage(s) dying, which is a risk you shouldn't take.

I understand you could've taken this as mistake on your hand, but you really shouldn't try to shoot at someone like that. He was in a position were the hostage could've easily been killed and thus you broke FearRP, you shouldn't be shooting at someone who just hostaged another one of your colleagues, as I said; you should always priorities their safety.

I don't believe there is much else to discuss here, and therefore I will leave this to a concluding administrator.

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The man peaks for a second when the gunfight has started shoots like a bullet and then is gone like and do not show them before, I am focused on the hostage taker not looking for a couple of pixels walk out and I really don’t think it is reasonable to expect to A. See him and B. React to someone I don’t even know is there especially when shit has already hit the fan
You already knew they were there though? Turtle said that back when you said “We will do the negotiationsnhere” even though Turtle demanded to bring him behind the barn. That’s why I expect you to know it. You were the one to engage and therefore you made “shit hit the fan”, before that you could’ve just negotiated with him for the hostage. Violence should be your absolute last option as per rule 3.1.
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(08-15-2019, 05:05 PM)Jonas Wrote: You already knew they were there though? Turtle said that back when you said “We will do the negotiationsnhere” even though Turtle demanded to bring him behind the barn. That’s why I expect you to know it. You were the one to engage and therefore you made “shit hit the fan”, before that you could’ve just negotiated with him for the hostage. Violence should be your absolute last option as per rule 3.1.

How can you know someone is there when you can’t see them or you haven’t gone to them or they haven’t gone to you, how would I also know that these were even a threat to the hostage? I saw no immediate threat at all to the hostage and decided the chance to succeed and WIN with no casualties was basically 100% so we shot and exactly that happened. I also did attempt to negotiate at the barn although turtle insisted on just walking away with the hostage. NONE of us were just going to sit around when we had a CLEAR EASY chance
Also, I now have reason to believe they killed cops before we got there, therefore bringing violence to be the only option since they have already killed cops, I’m sure logs can agree with this
You can know someone is there when he tells you... He is obviously also speaking with them in the radio? The hostage was moved towards the back of the farm, exactly where Turtle had descriped as his mates location. You should’ve tried to continue with negotiations at firsthand, but you didn’t. He didn’t insist on walking away either, he was moving the hostage to a position were Turtle had more power over the negotiations. Even if you say your chance was “Clear easy” you still should NEVER EVER take that chance as of risking someones life. It’s as valueable to you as your life, and I don’t think you understand fhat man.

In regards to your last comment, what reason do you have to believe that they killed cops before you got there? And you guys had already actually tried to do the negotiations but you decieded to break negotiations and start shooting when you clearly should’ve just negotiated with him.

I won’t be leaving many more comments as I believe I’ve said enough and I’ll be awaiting a concluding administrators response.
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