UBLR 'John Silverthorne's Mum'

[Centurion]

Posting for 'John Silverthorne's Mum':

Your name: John Silverthrones Mum


Your blacklist ID: 89507

Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:57372971

Reason: 'RDM, should know better, just got off a 4 hour blacklist for the same reason.'

Staff member who blacklisted you: [FL:M] Jonas

Reason why you should be unblacklisted: 

Blacklists are designed to punish a 'minge' in order to make them regret breaking the rules intentionally. Please keep that in mind in this case. 

First, I am going to describe the situation:

Myself and several others were based at Villas. We were about to be raided (rather blatantly) by the government and weapons were drawn on both teams. Things were tense and the SRU were clearly trying to find ways to breach our base. Tension was high, and a fight was imminent. One wrong move and shots would clearly be fired in all sorts of directions. 

The occasion itself:

As myself, John Silver and Centurion strolled into the garden we all heard a call from a teammate saying 'SRU in the base!'. As expected, we instantly ran to respond and scanned the garden fence. To this, we saw an SRU, all black, a very large distance away with all arms and legs bent. As we all know when you equip a shotgun you bend your arms and legs and adopt a rather strange position. When panicking, surrounded by police, in danger and seeing someone with a similar shape of a gunner, we all responded with violence. So what happened? I opened fire. 


The video from the victim (MrFinnConlon): 



As you can see, not only is Finn in a strange position (easily mistaken). Furthermore, he is in the dark in black clothing clearly with part of the tree branches in the way. 

If the SRU is in our base, and considering how far through the fence he was this is the case, we have a right to shoot him. We classed it as a breach. We saw an SRU, we knew they were trying to breach and assumed they had succeeded in some way. My reaction was completely just, and I know for a fact many of the staff team themselves would have carried out the same action though what the situation and circumstances were.

Jonas, you're a good lad. However, you were stubborn in the mod sit. Ranging from muting Centurion and John Silver, all the way to displaying a false demonstration to hide a mistake. You denied the possibility to talk about it further and reduce the time to Sort this out. It would have taken minutes on the server, but now days on here. We all get it wrong sometimes. Me especially. Nevertheless, no one would have judged you (or will) if you show some empathy and understand what was happening. You have been seen to kill for far less than that. 

Referring to my beginning point; I was not intending to break the rules in this instance and in many ways I do not believe I did. The blacklist is intended to be given out for minges who have intentionally broken the rules to make other's lives harder on Fearless. That wasn't the case here. It was a pure misunderstanding and resulted in MrFinnConlon being brought back anyway, which we were all in favour for. I hope that MrFinnConlon agrees with what I'm saying because I think how he takes this is important. 

Finally, Id like to say that I am sorry for the inconvenience it has caused. I'm sure it is rather irritating being killed like that. However, I am positive that anyone else in that situation would have done the exact same I did as it was impossible to tell from my distance away. There was no hesitation, just a valid reaction. I hope you will all understand my argument and understand that it was a simple misunderstanding, definitely not deserving of a 6 hour blacklist!


Thank you for reading and reviewing my case.

[Jonas]

Hello,
I will respond in bits, where i feel like there needs to be responded to.

Blacklists are designed to punish a 'minge' in order to make them regret breaking the rules intentionally. Please keep that in mind in this case.

You're wrong here, we sanction/punish people, so they can learn from their mistakes, not so that they regret what they've done only, but so that they get a lesson, and learn from their mistakes.

As myself, John Silver and Centurion strolled into the garden we all heard a call from a teammate saying 'SRU in the base!'. As expected, we instantly ran to respond and scanned the garden fence. To this, we saw an SRU, all black, a very large distance away with all arms and legs bent. As we all know when you equip a shotgun you bend your arms and legs and adopt a rather strange position. When panicking, surrounded by police, in danger and seeing someone with a similar shape of a gunner, we all responded with violence. So what happened? I opened fire.

Right to clear it up, he was stuck in your fence, UNARMED, not shooting or pointing any guns, and no raid had begun, Random and I made is CLEAR to all of you, even with me as an SRU, and made myself stuck and pointed a shotgun, and then also not pointing one, there was a really big different, where you can easily tell the difference, and priorer to you shooting him, he called me for help, because he was stuck in your base, and he tried to come out.

If the SRU is in our base, and considering how far through the fence he was this is the case, we have a right to shoot him. We classed it as a breach. We saw an SRU, we knew they were trying to breach and assumed they had succeeded in some way. My reaction was completely just, and I know for a fact many of the staff team themselves would have carried out the same action though what the situation and circumstances were.

The thing is though; MrFinnConlon was not in your base, he was stuck in your fence, yes, he was further into the garden, you shot at him, and continued, but you could of seized fire, as you saw he was stuck.
If you see someone stuck in your fence, how can you class it as breaching?, it would rather be exploiting and FailRP.
Also, you're saying "and I know for a fact many of the staff team themselves would have carried out the same action though what the situation and circumstances were.", I don't see how you can ask to be unbanned, based on what you think a staff member would do, the most likely thing to be done is probably them using their physgun to get them unstuck and move them out again.

Jonas, you're a good lad. However, you were stubborn in the mod sit. Ranging from muting Centurion and John Silver, all the way to displaying a false demonstration to hide a mistake. You denied the possibility to talk about it further and reduce the time to Sort this out. It would have taken minutes on the server, but now days on here. We all get it wrong sometimes. Me especially. Nevertheless, no one would have judged you (or will) if you show some empathy and understand what was happening. You have been seen to kill for far less than that.

I wouldn't call it stubborn, i was telling you exactly what you did wrong, and demonstrated on multiple occasions, i had to mute John and Centurion, because i said that i was talking, and explaining the situation, yet they kept on talking over me, and just screaming down their mics, which was why i had to mute them.
I did not deny the possibility to talk about it further, we fully talked it through, there was nothing left to talk about, seeing as i had brought you to a roof individually, explaining everything, and then i let John and Centurion have a say aswell as i was explaining the situation.
As said before in the mod-sit, i am not having empathy with you, seeing as the same day, you litterly just got off a blacklist for "Invalid reason to kill someone", which lead me to belive, you don't understand what your blacklist was for, and juding by your hours, and the fact you do agressive RP almost everyday, you should know way better.

Referring to my beginning point; I was not intending to break the rules in this instance and in many ways I do not believe I did. The blacklist is intended to be given out for minges who have intentionally broken the rules to make other's lives harder on Fearless. That wasn't the case here. It was a pure misunderstanding and resulted in MrFinnConlon being brought back anyway, which we were all in favour for. I hope that MrFinnConlon agrees with what I'm saying because I think how he takes this is important.

Your beginning point is invalid though, as said above, you clearly had no understanding of what RDM means, seeing as you litterly JUST got off a 4 hour blacklist from Random for the reason "Invalid Reason to kill someone", which was why you got the 6 hour blacklist, and you call it a misunderstanding? you had multiple times to stop shooting, and letting me grab him to be free, nonetheless if he was armed or not, he is not supposed to be there and you should have waited for someone to get him.

There was no hesitation, just a valid reaction. I hope you will all understand my argument and understand that it was a simple misunderstanding, definitely not deserving of a 6 hour blacklist!

I will explain once again why it deserves 6 hours;
First of all, you have 625+ hours, doing agressive RP almost everyday, and had just gotten off a blacklist only like 2 hours priorer to this event.
You also, in the mod-sit tried to lie your way out on multiple occasions saying stuff like "I shot because the others started shooting", and "The raid was on-going", and so on, which is a complete lie, that the video also proves you wrong on, i chose for you not to be punished for this offence, which you should be happy for, as you clearly knew that you started shooting and that no raid was on-going, that you should be happy for.

I see no reason for the blacklist to be removed or reduced, what you did was clearly rulebreakage.
~Jonas.

[Centurion]

Sanctions are to ensure minges stop being minges. Think of a school. If I do my homework incorrectly, I get no punishment as it is a mistake. If I intentionally don't do it, I get punished as it is different. That should be obvious now.

Your second point; You did not show us what had happened. What you did was cover up what you got wrong and show us a completely different situation. You were too high on the fence. You were near the tree. These are big factors. Also, you can see the difference when you constantly swap from shotgun to arms. When you only see an SRU in your garden you do not have time to think 'What does an unarmed SRU man look like glitched in a fence?'. That because it mostly goes like 'What does an unarmed SRU *BANG, DEAD*'. So, lets not pretend you showed us the actual situation. You can't deny the hard evidence in the video.

You say he could have 'stopped firing' but in the video its clear the 1 second spray was too short to be stopped half way. The video shows clearly that within 2 seconds he was seen and shot. So, please do not try and act like this was a drawn out, planned attempt to ruin Finn's day.

Now, how could it be seen as a breach? Im no genius, but as the SRU van(s) were driving around and propping up against walls with weapons, and the police were attempting to distract us at the front, we both know you were trying to breach. It was very clear it can be a breach. We saw you all crowded around about to raid and we saw an SRU in the garden. It's simple.

The biggest problem here is if we could identify whether or not he was armed. Now, we know it was dark by the video. We know it was near the tree and so from most angles it was half covering him (despite what you say). We know that he was wearing black and so his limbs were not as clear. We know that we were rushing due to your extensive force outside our base. Finally, we know that he was only just inline with the fence separation.

Posture:

His posture, as seen in the video, is slouched and bent due to him being stuck. In addition, he is facing us which makes it much harder to tell his positioning of his arms and hands.As you can see from the video it is hard to tell despite what the you say the 'demonstrations' show. They gave a very biased result and you know that.

Location:

We see the tree in the way, the darkness of the uniform and fence and we know the swat van is outside. You can see by our angle in the video we cant see the fence above him because we are parallel with it. So, we assumed (with all the tension and police force surrounding us) that it was the start of a raid. Do not try and pretend it was random when you have so many police around us and were in position to breach. We are not dumb and neither are so.

Timing:

This was of course in the situation of you preparing for a raid. I count 6 seconds that Finn was alive in our base. 2 of which he was spotted. 1 in which he was shot. Clearly, it was a quick reaction. In any kind of raid you have no time to piss about, its straight up do or die. What you are suggesting is that we should cross reference their past, inspect every inch of their body, interview them, experiment with them and then decide whether or not to kill them. Obviously stupid.

Finally, Range:

As we can tell, we are all some distance away from Finn. In fact, we were so far away we could not even hear him! This means we cannot educe FearRP on him and so killing was the only solution in the circumstances. The long distance makes it harder to see, of course which adds to the reason why it was so hard to identify. Its simple, the range is a large factor in such a complex situation. This is proven in the video.

I hope this helps.

[Random]

I just want to add something here, as I was involved in the sit when explaining the punishment.


We showed you the diffrent animations (Holding a gun, and unarmed) from the so to speak perfect position. We even changed the time in order to make the perfect scenarion. Both me and Jonas could see a diffrence perfectly fine.

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

EDIT: Also, the whole ''the tree was blocking the sight'' is a pitty excuse. He was in the open, as were you. As can be seen by this screenshot, you would clearly see him. The leaves, was off to his right.



With ''John Silverthorne's Mum'' experience on the server, and the fact that he litterly just had another weapons blacklist on him. I'd say he was lucky to get the punishment he did receive.

[Centurion]

I'll just say this: your recreation was invalid. It was wrong in many ways and the fact you had to check both animations to see the difference shows clearly how you were assuming it's relevance initially. This is not my UBLR, and so i will comment no more. I hope for you to conclude the situation correctly like I'm sure you will.

Yours Fairhfully,
Centurion.

[Jonas]

Sanctions are to ensure minges stop being minges. Think of a school. If I do my homework incorrectly, I get no punishment as it is a mistake. If I intentionally don't do it, I get punished as it is different. That should be obvious now.

This is a very very very bad example, people who break the rules get punished to learn, not just because they need to regret it, yes they'll probably regret their actions, but punishments are given out, inorder to make people learn from their mistakes.

Your second point; You did not show us what had happened. What you did was cover up what you got wrong and show us a completely different situation. You were too high on the fence. You were near the tree. These are big factors. Also, you can see the difference when you constantly swap from shotgun to arms. When you only see an SRU in your garden you do not have time to think 'What does an unarmed SRU man look like glitched in a fence?'. That because it mostly goes like 'What does an unarmed SRU *BANG, DEAD*'. So, lets not pretend you showed us the actual situation. You can't deny the hard evidence in the video. 

I did show you what happend, i send you the video, dind't i?, also i demonstrated it on multiple occasions, i demonstraded the ACTION/ANIMATION, as said in my first reply, seeing as you can clearly see in the video where he is, i also said this in the mod-sit, don't know if you heard it or not, but i was showing you how each animation looked like, so saying that i hd to get the perfect location is stupid, because as said before, it's clearly shown in the video.
As you said yourself, the hard evidence in the video proves it all, he had time to stop, all it takes is to raise your finger from the mouse, which takes no time.

You say he could have 'stopped firing' but in the video its clear the 1 second spray was too short to be stopped half way. The video shows clearly that within 2 seconds he was seen and shot. So, please do not try and act like this was a drawn out, planned attempt to ruin Finn's day

He could have EASILY stopped shooting, again it takes no time at all.
And also, i never "tried to act like it was drawn out" and planned attempt to ruin Finn's day? I never said this or acted this way, i am simply saying that all he had to do was stop firing.
Violence shall always be last option, if you're unsure weather or not he's unarmed you can run up quickly and check, instead of opening fire on someone for no reason.

Now, how could it be seen as a breach? Im no genius, but as the SRU van(s) were driving around and propping up against walls with weapons, and the police were attempting to distract us at the front, we both know you were trying to breach. It was very clear it can be a breach. We saw you all crowded around about to raid and we saw an SRU in the garden. It's simple. 

I think you got my wordings wrong here, ofcourse it seems like he's about to breach, what i meant was: him being stuck in the fence, does that show that he has breached? Especially when unarmed.

The biggest problem here is if we could identify whether or not he was armed. Now, we know it was dark by the video. We know it was near the tree and so from most angles it was half covering him (despite what you say). We know that he was wearing black and so his limbs were not as clear. We know that we were rushing due to your extensive force outside our base. Finally, we know that he was only just inline with the fence separation. 

If you had a problem identifying if he was armed or not, you could run up and check, if he was armed he'd most likely shoot, but he dind't fire anything.
Half covered? You ran down a ranp and had CLEAR shot of him, you could easily be able to see that he was unarmed, stop trying to make up something that isen't true.

His posture, as seen in the video, is slouched and bent due to him being stuck. In addition, he is facing us which makes it much harder to tell his positioning of his arms and hands.As you can see from the video it is hard to tell despite what the you say the 'demonstrations' show. They gave a very biased result and you know that. 

If he is bent, and looking towards you, that would be the easiest way of seeing him if hea armed or not, as said above, my demonstrations where made to show how the body work, and how it looks like, not the actual position, this is what Random and I both said, and demonstrated.

We see the tree in the way, the darkness of the uniform and fence and we know the swat van is outside. You can see by our angle in the video we cant see the fence above him because we are parallel with it. So, we assumed (with all the tension and police force surrounding us) that it was the start of a raid. Do not try and pretend it was random when you have so many police around us and were in position to breach. We are not dumb and neither are so. 

You where running down un ground level, so seeing him should be no problem, and the darkness of the uniform? You can easily tell from a dark uniform to a silver-alike weapon.
I am not trying to pretend like the raid was random, not at all, your making up another lie again.

This was of course in the situation of you preparing for a raid. I count 6 seconds that Finn was alive in our base. 2 of which he was spotted. 1 in which he was shot. Clearly, it was a quick reaction. In any kind of raid you have no time to piss about, its straight up do or die. What you are suggesting is that we should cross reference their past, inspect every inch of their body, interview them, experiment with them and then decide whether or not to kill them. Obviously stupid. 

I never said for you to, quote on quote, " come cross reference their past, inspect every inch of their body, interview them, experiment with them and then decide whether or not to kill them." I said that VIOLENCE IS LAST OPTION, and you don't straight up fire on someone who's unarmed and have not threatend you in anyway, you could of easily have checked up weather or not he was going to shoot, he was stuck so he most likely weren't gonna shoot, that's common sence, and you should know that by now.

As we can tell, we are all some distance away from Finn. In fact, we were so far away we could not even hear him! This means we cannot educe FearRP on him and so killing was the only solution in the circumstances. The long distance makes it harder to see, of course which adds to the reason why it was so hard to identify. Its simple, the range is a large factor in such a complex situation. This is proven in the video.

You dind't have to educe a FearRP situation, you could of called an admin, you CLEARLY saw he was stuck up there, yet you kept on shooting.

Your first story in-game was that everyone else shot, so you shot and killed him, but the video proves wrong, and so did the damage logs, as you where the ONLY person to damage him in this situation, and that he was running around with a gun out and was tresspassing, these where your first excuses, how come you've changed the whole plot and situation? Do not avoid this question.

I feel like your attempting to make alot of fake claims, which they very much seem like, because you never said it in-game when you had your time.

Please keep the story real, and don't make up all this fake stuff, it is clear to me how you've changed the WHOLE story in an attempt to get him unblacklisted, however that is not how it works, what JoshZ did, he was fully aware of, and as i said to him, i have a suspecioun of him just trying to get his kills up for a good Kd, but that i do not have evidence up, or have anything to punish for, do that will be left here, but again, JoshZ was fully aware of this, he had no excuses whatsoever, so therefor you're making up stories i suppose?

John Silver or JoshZ (Dont remember who exactly) said "We thought it was a minge", which also backs up my claim of you trying to raise your KD, but i cannot do anything.

I think that the blacklist shall remain, Josh should have known way better with his experience, yet he continued, and he clearly dind't learn from the other blacklist.

~Jonas.
P.S Again, do not make up stories, lying in the courthouse is not allowed, so please; don't do it, Thanks.

[Centurion]

Jonas, do not dare accuse me of lying in this thread.

I'd like you to understand it is myself talking now, not JoshZ. When you say I changed my story, or you told me all these points, you've done no such thing. Perhaps that is why you are accusing me of 'lying'. My story is exactly the same as I told you on the live server, down to the last pixel. At no point did I ever claim anyone else shot. At no point did I say the raid had started and at no point did I lie Jonas. I'd appreciate if you kept that in mind. You seem to be getting myself and JoshZ mixed up as you address me with things you have only told him.

I have a lot to say, but this isn't my UBLR, so I'll leave it. My points are made. I hope you come to a conlclusion. Thank you all for your time and effort in reviewing this, and thanks to all those involved for your input. I am no longer going to comment here. I'd prefer no one attempts to 'bait' my reply. Jonas, you must be mistaken between me and JoshZ, and must be accidentally mixing our stories. I'm sure it is not intentional, however I assure you I have not changed a word.

Yours Fairhfully,
Centurion

[Jonas]

Hello,

Seeing as Centurion seems to be dealing with this i'd like to hear what JoshZ has to say, seeing as it is obviously his UBLR, and still hasen't made a reply as to why he thinks he should be unbanned yet, only Centurion has.

~Jonas

[Centurion]

JoshZ has received a forum warning for posting on this thread prior. Please can you deal with this?

[Awestruck]

Centurion will no longer be allowed to post on this thread. For either himself, or JoshZ. JoshZ will need to find another person willing to do so.

On another note, can I ask why Finn pulled up to the fence, knowingly on the drivers side, in order for him to attempt to go through the fence. With his hours, he should surely know that this would happen.