Rule 1.9 [backseat administration]

[aDisabledDeer]

To me personally I think that backseat administration should not even be a thing - if the admins cannot deal with a situation for whatever reason (not being online, or unable to deal with someone at that time) it should be perfectly legitimate for players to take necessary and reasonable measures to ensure that the status quo of the server is kept and to ensure that RP is not ruined.

Locking a prop pusher in a room, placing him in handcuffs, or other reasonable measures should not warrant a ban or even a blacklist in my opinion.

What is everyone else's opinion on this matter?

Do not bring up matters from the courthouse, keep this debate healthy

[Balls]

I totaly agree with you.
Sometimes the only thing you can do is to "break" the rules to stop the other guy.

example; I once was a president, an RDMer raided me with no reason at all, A gun dealer to be right. Well, actually mugged me. Ofc I do not want to die by some random minge trying to kill me. So yea, I broke the rules a little and blocked him off.

100% +Support that this should be changed just a slightly bit.

[FL:RP] Balls

[Infernaw]

I totally get your point. But eitherway the rulebreaker will just respawn or disconnect and keep going. Not to mention that it can be abused, excusing yourself over your own rulebreak because "he started it first" or something.
It can also end up leaving a player unpunished, because you chose to stop him instead of reporting him. Of course, you could report him aswell, but not many players will keep that in mind if the problem gets solved.

Perhaps you, Disabled, and other members, know what's right or wrong according to the rules.
Perhaps you can handle the situation without any further provocations.
But keep in mind that there are others out there who would possibly just make the whole situation worse.

Just saying that things would not look pretty, and the rule is good where it is.

[aDisabledDeer]

I totally get your point. But eitherway the rulebreaker will just respawn or disconnect and keep going. Not to mention that it can be abused, excusing yourself over your own rulebreak because "he started it first" or something.
It can also end up leaving a player unpunished, because you chose to stop him instead of reporting him. Of course, you could report him aswell, but not many players will keep that in mind if the problem gets solved.

Perhaps you, Disabled, and other members, know what's right or wrong according to the rules.
Perhaps you can handle the situation without any further provocations.
But keep in mind that there are others out there who would possibly just make the whole situation worse.

Just saying that things would not look pretty, and the rule is good where it is.

I completely respect your point and where you are coming from; however I would argue that the rule needs to be taken on a case by case basis and not used as a blanket ban.

If someone, for example myself, were to lock a prop minge in a room and await the admins to deal with him, should I receive a ban? I would argue, of course, no.

If someone were to keep shooting a prop minge in the middle of the street, and kill him when he respawns (causing more chaos) should he be banned? I would argue that he should have action taken against him, not necessarily banned.

[Falc]

This rule needs to be here otherwise it will just cause hassle in all aspects.

We cannot let players have authority over other players whether they are a rulebreaker or not because that is why we have staff. It's all good locking a prop pusher in a room but then when we respond to the call, what can we do? There could be no evidence as you've stopped the player and now he will not get caught and a ton of complaints come in about "The staff don't respond quick enough, omg why didn't you ban him" Also we have to handle all cases professionally, we cannot be inconsistent with our punishments hence, ban him because he shot at him but not him because he only locked him in a room, it cannot work like that because more issues appear.

In some cases of course I can agree that maybe it shouldn't have been done like this, blah blah blah. But is has to be done, yes they helped the server and we understand that but they also broke a rule.

This can be used as an excuse on all levels, locking someone in a room for a joke and getting out of it by saying "He was breaking rules" when confronted by staff. For all we know the player may not have broken the rules and it could be you stopping them from Roleplaying.

Honestly I can see your perspective on the matter as I've been in your shoes myself in the past and it looks like we're out to ban people for matters like this, but since becoming staff I now realize that it is something we have to do and it only benefits the server, the rules are there for us to enforce.

[aDisabledDeer]

This rule needs to be here otherwise it will just cause hassle in all aspects.

We cannot let players have authority over other players whether they are a rulebreaker or not because that is why we have staff. It's all good locking a prop pusher in a room but then when we respond to the call, what can we do? There could be no evidence as you've stopped the player and now he will not get caught and a ton of complaints come in about "The staff don't respond quick enough, omg why didn't you ban him" Also we have to handle all cases professionally, we cannot be inconsistent with our punishments hence, ban him because he shot at him but not him because he only locked him in a room, it cannot work like that because more issues appear.

In some cases of course I can agree that maybe it shouldn't have been done like this, blah blah blah. But is has to be done, yes they helped the server and we understand that but they also broke a rule.

This can be used as an excuse on all levels, locking someone in a room for a joke and getting out of it by saying "He was breaking rules" when confronted by staff. For all we know the player may not have broken the rules and it could be you stopping them from Roleplaying.

Honestly I can see your perspective on the matter as I've been in your shoes myself in the past and it looks like we're out to ban people for matters like this, but since becoming staff I now realize that it is something we have to do and it only benefits the server, the rules are there for us to enforce.

Completely fair point, thanks for your input!

[Spear]

Just because someone breaks a rule doesn't mean you can break another rule to stop them. For an example: you need a vaild reason (a roleplay reason) to cuff someone. Do not cuff someone for an "OOC reason" (Proppushing).
If you see someone break a rule you should get some evidence and post a player report. Otherwise,  just ignore the rulebreaker and/or wait until a staff member takes care of the situation. You could also try to talk to the player and tell him that what he is doing is not allowed. The rule is there for a reason and therefore backseat administration should not be broken. So actually I do not agree with you =/

[Prosto]

Just because someone breaks a rule doesn't mean you can break another rule to stop them. For an example: you need a vaild reason (a roleplay reason) to cuff someone. Do not cuff someone for an "OOC reason" (Proppushing).
If you see someone break a rule you should get some evidence and post a player report. Otherwise,  just ignore the rulebreaker and/or wait until a staff member takes care of the situation. The rule is there for a reason and therefore backseat administration should not be broken. So actually I do not agree with you =/

So if someone spawn a prop and start propbashing cars, you have to "ignore" it? Or whole server must leave because they can't do anything?

[Spear]

Just because someone breaks a rule doesn't mean you can break another rule to stop them. For an example: you need a vaild reason (a roleplay reason) to cuff someone. Do not cuff someone for an "OOC reason" (Proppushing).
If you see someone break a rule you should get some evidence and post a player report. Otherwise,  just ignore the rulebreaker and/or wait until a staff member takes care of the situation. You could also try to talk to the player and tell him that what he is doing is not allowed. The rule is there for a reason and therefore backseat administration should not be broken. So actually I do not agree with you =/

So if someone spawn a prop and start propbashing cars, you have to "ignore" it? Or whole server must leave because they can't do anything?

That is what we have to do or try to talk to him and tell him that what he is doing is not allowed. Get evidence and post a player report or be patient and wait for a staff member. Even try to call one to the server.
Don't break a rule because others do.

[Hitman]

If someone is breaking a rule and doing something such as prop spamming or prop pushing people and cars you could always record it and post a player report or message a staff member on steam.

However I see your point and realize how frustrating it is being powerless against people trying to ruin your roleplay experience, but rules are in place and they must be followed at the end of the day.