FL Debates #1: Gun Control

**GeorgeTheBoy**

I feel Fearless hasn't had a good debate in a while and with the recent shootings around the world, I think now is a good time to discuss gun control.

While this covers every country, I'm sure that focus will be on the USA and Europe. So, without further ado:

FL Debates #1: Gun Control

These debates are set up so the community can discuss selected subjects that may affect them in everyday life. It also gives people around the world a chance to explain to people how different laws/systems impact their life compared to that of another person's country.

Debates will stay open long enough for everyone to voice their views but some may stay open longer than others depending on how the debate is going.

The rules:

Mark your post with a +Support, +/- Support, or -Support (much like suggestions).

All replies must benefit the debate, those that do not will be removed.

Responding to another member's opinion must be done respectively.

All 'facts' must have a VALID source.

All posts MUST follow the forum rules.

Those who fail to follow the above rules will have their posts removed and may receive warnings.

My opinion:

+Support.

Contrary to popular belief firearms are available in the UK, in fact, I actually live near a gun store. Obtaining one has been purposely made difficult by the government though as an attempt to stop just anyone buying a firearm. There is a lengthy background check as well requirements you must reach in order to be granted a gun license. I feel this is the best way to handle the selling of firearms in a country. We've had 5 mass shootings since 1900 with 0.05 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants in the five years to 2011. The US has a much, much higher number. We've also had one school shooting. ONE. America seems to have one every other month.

I'm not against Americans having firearms but I believe it's currently far too easy for Americans to get them. Most say they are needed for protection but I'm really not sure why you need more than one for protection.

This set by the comedia Jim Jefferies sums it up quite well and destroys any argument that pro-gun activists have:

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

Feel free to post your opinions below!

slicedhomos

+Support
I live in the UK too and like you say, its very hard to get your hands on a gun as a common citizen; which is good because there's literally no need to have a gun. I know many people will say "but what if you get attacked/mugged or your home gets robbed/invaded" but there's a few things to consider:

If you can get your hands on a gun, the chances are so can your attacker.
Even if you have a gun, do you know how to use it? How to load, aim, fire, toggle the safety, stop it from jamming? I doubt many people will go to a shooting range.
If you did have a gun and you did get attacked, chances are you won't even be able to get it out or the attacked might just take it from you if you did

Statisically, if you're male you're more likely to die bif you have access to a gun than if you don't; 29% in fact. If you're female, then you're three times as likely to die.
(Source: http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-gu...story.html)

So um, yeah, a big 'ole + to gun control pls

Voluptious

Big fat +support from me aswell

In Norway it is not easy to get a gun. You need to go through a long proses with the cops and you can only get a weapon licence if you have a valid reason to own a weapon.

How many school massacres has Norway had? None.
How many acts of terror has Norway had in modern history? One
There has been 27 gun related murders in 10 years in Norway, I call that quite good.

Paging Enzyme to this, as I heard his dad is quite into guns so he can speak more on the laws than what I can.

Sources:
https://www.politi.no/vedlegg/lokale_ved...g_2827.pdf
Wikipedia

**Enzyme**

You've summoned me, Voluptious.

My father has a background in the Army. He's spent most of his life in it, and he's been in peace-keeping operations in the middle east as a for NATO I believe. When my father enlisted in the army, he got himself into "oppklarings-enheten" or just "recon-unit" where he trained for a war against the Soviet Union. He was supposed to be behind enemy lines relay information about enemy forces to the HQ or whatever.

Because of his military background, he owns multiple firearms which are more or less impossible for civilians to acquire. He owns everything from a Colt .45 to a Luger and a US carbine (and many other weapons).
My father is very gun-interested as Volup mentioned, and he's a part of a "pistol club" and he's a devoted hunter. I've naturally grown up with weapons myself and I've tried many guns that other Norwegian citizens haven't. I own a hunting rifle myself, and I consider myself to be rather experienced with firearms in general (Everything from revolvers, pistols, shotguns and rifles).
(Note: I'm mentioning my father in this thread only because Volup mentioned him).

Gun laws are very strict in Norway and you can get a long jail-sentence if you don't follow the laws to the dot.
Since firearms are so strictly regulated and monitored, we don't really see a lot of action when it comes to shootouts and etc. Our police don't carry firearms (Although an exception has been made for quite a few months due to a very high terror-risk here in Norway).

Norway is very different compared to USA because the right to bear arms is almost a religion right, and the same laws that we have in Norway would never work out in a place like America because firearms are so important over there and american citizens would basically just flip shit.

I personally think that a citizen shouldn't have to own a semi-automatic assault rifle for personal defense (ie an AR-15). I understand the whole "Criminals are scared because there's a high chance that their victim got a gun" but the more easy it is for citizens to acquire guns; the more easy it is for criminals to do the same.

I'd say that the current gun laws in America are the reasons why school-shootings are sadly such a frequent issue. It's too easy for a crazy person to get a hold of a gun and then go crazy with it.

As Sliced mentioned, if you carry a weapon on yourself for self-protection then there's an even higher chance that you'll get yourself hurt. If you're for instance robbed then you should remain calm and give away your wallet and phone instead of trying to grab your gun and shoot the person. Many people who purchase a firearm do sadly not invest enough time in familiarizing and training with the gun, which can lead to dangerous situations.

I support a strong and heavily controlled and monitored gun-control.

Davidson

As a Danish myself, I agree with your point of view of most people here. However for the sake of debate I would like to give another reason for banning gun control.
So as you point out there is a lot of guns in the US, however the same can be said of Canada if we are talking about guns pr citizens. And you don't see this kind of shootings in Canada. So why is that?
Well if you have seen "Bowling for Columbine" then Mr. Moore points out that the difference in media and social structure. Media in the sense that the US media tense to be very dramatic and create fear. While in Canada the media is more like our two countries. Social stucture in the sense that ghettos ain't really a thing there and that Canadians dosn't fear each other.
So Micheal Moore point is this, as long as Americans have this culture of fear then we should make strict gun control.

+support
Edit: it's look better and makes more sense.
Best regards

Falcon

As an assault rifle firing, range shooting, gun cleaning American, I'd like to post my opinion.

Now, just to be clear here, most of the people who posted on this thread are European. In the U.S., it's quite easy to get your hands on a weapon. You can just head down to the local Gander Mountain to grab one, with your I.D., etc, of course; or you could just get rifles and pistols, etc. inherently. You can even get a concealed carry permit to carry a weapon in public. It also matters where you live in the U.S. As I live in Virginia, we have some more tolerant gun laws, but for those in Maryland, or in New York (city area), it's quite hard.

Now back on topic. I disagree with the idea of gun control. Mostly because I'm American, and have the sweet feeling of the recoil of a Benelli 12 gauge, the soft touch of Hoppes #9 patches, and the great smell of gun oil. But on a serious note, as an American, I believe we have the right to bear arms, as written in our constitution. Now I may have a different mindset in Europe, but in th U.S., that's my idea of freedom.

Source: http://www.loc.gov/law/help/second-amendment.php

yarrrs

+support, but for the right reasons. You'll see.

-support, it's our constitutional right to bear arms.

The MSM always hypes up gun control when there's a shooting. Oh sorry, only when a white guy does a shooting. Despite making up 12% of the entire U.S. population, blacks on the other hand commit over half of the murders we have. In that link you will find some other interesting facts on interracial standings on violence. So the problem isn't about gun control with white people. It's gun control with black people. Call me "racist" all you want, I'm not, I am just spitting a fact, and if I were black claiming whites were the problem, it would NOT be racist. It's a damn fact, and when it's this serious, I take it serious. The media chooses what they want to report on.

Does anybody here know who Omar Thornton is, without googling him?

Spoiler :

So, +support. Get them in our stores, not on the streets. Crime is a huge problem, and that is the cause.

Thoughts?

SixPackSoCali

Well since I don't really want to get into an argument with anyone, I'll just state my opinion etc. Rebuttal if you wish.

I live in the UK. Here in the UK we have strict (subjective) gun laws.

Shotgun licence to own a double barrel, semi auto, pump action shotgun. However only 2 + 1 in the chamber (restriction).
Rifle license to own a rifle of .22 upwards. any rifle upwards of a .22 in calibre cannot be semi-automatic. No magazine restrictions.

Pistols of a .22 calibre and upwards are outright banned. Thanks Tony B-Liar. Lower crime he said, no more shootings he said. Too bad gun crime rose after the ban.

Now having said that. Guns are easy to get in the UK, "I want to shoot in a club, I have a safe; I'm not a Muslim."

OR...

"He cuz how much for that pistol your friends got?"

I could buy a gun easily and as cheap as chips. Go to Manchester you can catch a shot. Police are scared to go anywhere dark or dangerous, why? They don't have guns and they'll either get stabbed or shot as they plead for there life.

If the Police are scared, how do you think that makes me feel? Scared? No, but vulnerable.

I want to be able to buy an AR-15 to shoot targets; protect my self. I want to be able to buy a Glock 19 to conceal carry to protect my self and others.

But I do not want to be prosecuted for having such items for such reasons.

Support the second amendment. Support the castle doctrine. Support the stand your ground laws. Support the freedom to protect your life and property.

yarrrs

I feel like posting this here.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/marylan...story.html

11 shot in Baltimore. See, a way you can tell who commits the crime is by subliminal clues left by the media.

If it's a "teen" or a "youth", you bet your ass it's a black kid.
If it's a white teen, you bet your ass it's a white teen.
If it's an unarmed black teen, you bet your ass it's an unarmed black teen.
If it's an unarmed white teen, you bet your ass it's a teenager/unarmed teenager. I've seen variations.

Let's see if Obama sings Amazing Grace for the victims families here. Oh yeah, since a black guy did the shooting don't get your hopes up.

Mr.UnionSniper

-Support (For normal people)
+Support for the mentally ill
Most shootings are caused by people with mental issues, these need to be addressed. However, maybe I want an assault rifle because it makes me feel good. I would hope people who were right in their minds would not abuse the constitutional right to bear arms.
Note: My family and I own almost every type of gun imaginable, we use them for target practice and hunting (self-defense if needed). We follow the gun laws in our state (Ohio) and currently do not have any issues with them, as there are few and they are reasonable.