Blacklisted - Physgun & Toolgun Access

[ilmon3y]

Your name: Ðave

Your blacklist ID: 20161 & 20162

Steam ID: STEAM_0:0:27168556

Reason why you should be unblacklisted:
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/4731...D08286BD5/
Because it's genuinely one of the most pathetic reasons I've seen in a long time for any punishment to be issued for. The construction I had was about as private as possible while still just scraping within the definition of "public building" . It's comparable to punishing an individual for saying something such as "damn" in the OOC chat, or doing two adverts 30 seconds apart, or a wall 14 feet high.

While technically he is correct for issuing it, it more seems like he is targeting us for reasons unknown(possibly to make a point towards us, possibly just personal dislike), as he will spend literally 20 minutes at times looking to issue a punishment over the most petty reasons for me and DrTosspot, as many other dupes that I highly doubt had admin permission, (which fell under the definition of public building and were far more obvious) were not removed and he made no attempt to speak to the owners about it.

Admin who blacklisted you: [FL:M] ZedsDead

[Feffe]

Right. I watched the dupe for a while, true, because i was watching you and DrTosspot use the catwalk and window in the back to propclimb over the wall and jump over to where the BMD spawns, where you even had your car parked. Now. I issued a blacklist because the day BEFORE the one i blacklisted you, you had spawned another public dupe without asking permission, and when i asked about it, you said that Narc had told you that as long as you owned the Tides doors, you could spawn the dupe there. I checked with Narc about this, and told me he had never said that. So, are you then really that surprised to be blacklisted the day after that for spawning another public dupe without asking for permission first? I even did talk to you about it, but you were to busy running after a bmd stabbing him a few times because he was in your public dupe. And no surprise, after stabbing him, you and DrTosspot had to make a quick getaway, and used the dupe to jump the wall again. Now. After checking with another admin, he advised me to issue a blacklist, as i had warned you the day before, so i did. You also told me you had showned the dupe to Beflok on the build server and he had approved it. Took a few screenshots of the dupe, and showed him the dupe later, and he then told me he had never seen the dupe before and did not approce of the build. So yet again, what i would assume lying about what another admin had said, just to avoid punishment(?).

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=205582610

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=205582538

You can even see you running away from just propclimbing the wall in one of the pics here, and you can see you car parked behind the wall.

[ilmon3y]

Right. I watched the dupe for a while, true, because i was watching you and DrTosspot use the catwalk and window in the back to propclimb over the wall and jump over to where the BMD spawns, where you even had your car parked. Now. I issued a blacklist because the day BEFORE the one i blacklisted you, you had spawned another public dupe without asking permission, and when i asked about it, you said that Narc had told you that as long as you owned the Tides doors, you could spawn the dupe there. I checked with Narc about this, and told me he had never said that. So, are you then really that surprised to be blacklisted the day after that for spawning another public dupe without asking for permission first? I even did talk to you about it, but you were to busy running after a bmd stabbing him a few times because he was in your public dupe. And no surprise, after stabbing him, you and DrTosspot had to make a quick getaway, and used the dupe to jump the wall again. Now. After checking with another admin, he advised me to issue a blacklist, as i had warned you the day before, so i did. You also told me you had showned the dupe to Beflok on the build server and he had approved it. Took a few screenshots of the dupe, and showed him the dupe later, and he then told me he had never seen the dupe before and did not approce of the build. So yet again, what i would assume lying about what another admin had said, just to avoid punishment(?).

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=205582610

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=205582538

You can even see you running away from just propclimbing the wall in one of the pics here, and you can see you car parked behind the wall.

We made fixes to our dupe after people started to complain (by people, I mean 3 SRU officers that were completely oblivious, one of them in fact, killing one of us for throwing a bottle while we had no weapons). The reason for my blacklist is 'public building', correct? Oh god forbid that I place a dupe in a dark, secluded alleyway with no publicity or domain.

The day before, when I had my construction site at Tides, was duped long before you got on the server. And while you insisted that I was to check for permission even long after you had got on, I do genuinely recall Narcotic (or at least one of the admins) claiming that I could place that particular dupe on the condition that I owned all the doors inside. You were right to ask me for his statement though, because all players are expected to log absolutely every single statement made by an admin (one of them being about 2 months ago), am I right?

From what Beflok told me:

23:51 - [FL] beflok: Generally speaking people only get harassed if the build is in the way or is unrealistic to city rp.

Lastly, prior to my blacklist, there were at least another 2 public dupes. One across from us, and another in the main street. Both were far more obvious and exposing, and had a consisting operation in each (a store and an impound lot). I specifically remember the store being duped before you were even online, and after keeping my eyes on it for my whole time spent on the server that day, I didn't see you confront the owner once for building permission. All of these incidents making it blatantly obvious that you were targeting us specifically for reasons considered very minor/irrelevant.

[5p carrier bag]

Right. I watched the dupe for a while, true, because i was watching you and DrTosspot use the catwalk and window in the back to propclimb over the wall and jump over to where the BMD spawns, where you even had your car parked. Now. I issued a blacklist because the day BEFORE the one i blacklisted you, you had spawned another public dupe without asking permission, and when i asked about it, you said that Narc had told you that as long as you owned the Tides doors, you could spawn the dupe there. I checked with Narc about this, and told me he had never said that. So, are you then really that surprised to be blacklisted the day after that for spawning another public dupe without asking for permission first? I even did talk to you about it, but you were to busy running after a bmd stabbing him a few times because he was in your public dupe. And no surprise, after stabbing him, you and DrTosspot had to make a quick getaway, and used the dupe to jump the wall again. Now. After checking with another admin, he advised me to issue a blacklist, as i had warned you the day before, so i did. You also told me you had showned the dupe to Beflok on the build server and he had approved it. Took a few screenshots of the dupe, and showed him the dupe later, and he then told me he had never seen the dupe before and did not approce of the build. So yet again, what i would assume lying about what another admin had said, just to avoid punishment(?).

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=205582610

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=205582538

You can even see you running away from just propclimbing the wall in one of the pics here, and you can see you car parked behind the wall.

The blacklist for issued for public building, not for prop climbing, and it was only issued to Dave, not me.

Immediately upon a possible complaint over prop climbing, we asked if it was deemed prop climbing or not, and it took you around 20 minutes to respond. When we stabbed the black market dealer, we told him multiple times to get out of there, and when he ran off, we didn't chase him. I'm fairly sure we didn't jump over the wall that time, both when the BMD returned with a gun, and when the police attempted to arrest us(although I may be mistaken), as between a complaint being raised and you providing an answer, I tried to avoid jumping over the wall.

The dupe prior was another very similar case of a very borderline case of public building, the building's front is sunk into the wall, and what we had, with the exception of a few cones and such, did not extend beyond the front of the two buildings on either side. I do recall Narcotic mentioning we had to have the doors when we asked for permission, so Dave probably misinterpreted that as thinking owning the doors meant you could have a construction on the front of the building(which isn't the most illogical of ways to interpret it).

When you punished Dave, I pointed out that myfloodify essentially had a similar dupe to our scaffolding(a level sticking out above his door, and a fence on the path infront), and you did not even acknowledge that. I highly doubt he had permission, since no normal person here is really going to go through the tedious process of asking for admin permission to dupe a shop inside a building they own, because it has a fence outside.

I'm sure if I went around saying "@possible public building here, could an admin please get involved" everytime I saw what was "not behind closed doors or the Nexus"(such as the lobby to a hotel two individuals created right infront of you, which was not behind a closed door, or floodify's shop), then I'd either find myself being very disliked by the admins very fast, possibly encountering a punishment for spamming admin requests, would most likely get no response, and I'd very quickly find players hating me quite a lot, for attempting to get them in trouble over the most petty reasons just because I can. I've even seen videos of people trolling by reporting users over every possible example of public building on roleplay servers.

I'd like to point out(since you're bringing up me stabbing someone after multiple warnings to go away, (and a blatant violation of fearRP right in front of you on their part with no punishment) in a debate over public building), as well as what appears to be a very strong double standard when it comes to what you deem unacceptable public building with us compared to other individuals, you also seem to drag us to a roof for ages at a time over the most petty reasons. For example, yesterday you dragged me to a roof for literally 20 minutes(an incredible length of time considering there was no debate on what actually happened) because you felt that legally I was wrong over my actions, and the(non existant in real life non lethal weapon) I used in the situation was somewhat unrealistic for my roleplay situation, the user also wasn't even spoken to regarding the fearRP violation on their part you brought up yourself(this seems to be a recurring event). It seems that you have some stronger motivations to punish me and Dave, whatever those motivations may be.

[Feffe]

Ok, to make one thing very simple to understand. I have no personal vendetta against you two. But be advised, that if a FL staff member talks to you for a longer period of time, so you can explain yourself to why you, as a contruction worker, killed a security guard, then stabbed and tranqed a BMD instead of calling the police about tresspasser, you obviously shouldn't stand right next to him and indirectly insult the staff member afterwards and giving attitude about it. Same goes for day 2, when Dave got blacklisted, first thing DrTosspot did, was comment in the OOC and then indirectly insulting the Staff member again while speaking between the both of you while standing right next to me.

Now, back to the case. I was watching your dupe and trying to talk to you about your dupe, and about our conversation the day before, while i was talking to Drogas on steam asking a couple of questions regarding the dupe and what he felt i should do. While i was trying to talk to you and waiting for reply, all i see are you two running around, stabbing a bmd, who also LEFT when you told him to, after you stabbed him a couple of times. When you finaly came back, you stood there for 20 seconds tops, then you both jumped the wall using the window and drove off in your trabant. At that point, i gave up trying to explain to you anymore until i had gotten response about the dupe and wheter or not it was public building, and you so clearly stated it wasn't.

When i finally got the response, i TPed Dave to me, finaly being able to have a talk without either of you running around doing everything else then talking to the mod, who is clearly talking to you. I explained to him how it was indeed public building, and regarding the conversation we had the day before, i was gonna take action for not listening. Now. I gave you a 3 hour blacklist, which is more then fair. I even got advised to ban you, but i saw no need for it, seing how i believe i had made my point towards public building permission with the blacklist.

When it comes to the impound and MyFloodifys shop. After i was done with you and your public building, i went over to the impound, and had a talk with RikarD, the owner of the impound. While i was there, i explained to him about public building, and without giving me any attitude about it, he simply asked for permission for the public build. I told him to spawn the dupe again, as he had removed it since i commented about the public building, and i examined the dupe, and simply gave him permission. I then got an @ call from Myflood while i was talking to RikarD, and gave him a permission as well.

Now. I am not always sure when it comes to the rules of the server myself, seeing how different admins have different opinions on what is what, which is why it make take a few minutes for me to react to a certain case, because i am asking other staff members on their opinions. Now. I've been told by one admin that as long as the public build is realistic and passive, i doesn't bother about public build permissions that much. I have also been told by another admin that everything that isn't behind owned doors (with a few exceptions) needs a public build permission. And seeing how i had a rather long conversation with you the day before about it, i did what i felt was right.

[5p carrier bag]

Ok, to make one thing very simple to understand. I have no personal vendetta against you two. But be advised, that if a FL staff member talks to you for a longer period of time, so you can explain yourself to why you, as a contruction worker, killed a security guard, then stabbed and tranqed a BMD instead of calling the police about tresspasser, you obviously shouldn't stand right next to him and indirectly insult the staff member afterwards and giving attitude about it. Same goes for day 2, when Dave got blacklisted, first thing DrTosspot did, was comment in the OOC and then indirectly insulting the Staff member again while speaking between the both of you while standing right next to me.

Now, back to the case. I was watching your dupe and trying to talk to you about your dupe, and about our conversation the day before, while i was talking to Drogas on steam asking a couple of questions regarding the dupe and what he felt i should do. While i was trying to talk to you and waiting for reply, all i see are you two running around, stabbing a bmd, who also LEFT when you told him to, after you stabbed him a couple of times. When you finaly came back, you stood there for 20 seconds tops, then you both jumped the wall using the window and drove off in your trabant. At that point, i gave up trying to explain to you anymore until i had gotten response about the dupe and wheter or not it was public building, and you so clearly stated it wasn't.

When i finally got the response, i TPed Dave to me, finaly being able to have a talk without either of you running around doing everything else then talking to the mod, who is clearly talking to you. I explained to him how it was indeed public building, and regarding the conversation we had the day before, i was gonna take action for not listening. Now. I gave you a 3 hour blacklist, which is more then fair. I even got advised to ban you, but i saw no need for it, seing how i believe i had made my point towards public building permission with the blacklist.

When it comes to the impound and MyFloodifys shop. After i was done with you and your public building, i went over to the impound, and had a talk with RikarD, the owner of the impound. While i was there, i explained to him about public building, and without giving me any attitude about it, he simply asked for permission for the public build. I told him to spawn the dupe again, as he had removed it since i commented about the public building, and i examined the dupe, and simply gave him permission. I then got an @ call from Myflood while i was talking to RikarD, and gave him a permission as well.

Now. I am not always sure when it comes to the rules of the server myself, seeing how different admins have different opinions on what is what, which is why it make take a few minutes for me to react to a certain case, because i am asking other staff members on their opinions. Now. I've been told by one admin that as long as the public build is realistic and passive, i doesn't bother about public build permissions that much. I have also been told by another admin that everything that isn't behind owned doors (with a few exceptions) needs a public build permission. And seeing how i had a rather long conversation with you the day before about it, i did what i felt was right.

You weren't clearly trying to talk to us, you just came over, then spent about 10 minutes hovering over doing nothing. You can't expect people to just hang around forever while you're making no attempt to speak to them, and act as if they were attempting to run off from you when they get warranted by the police. If you felt we were obliged to stay, you could have made it far more obvious that you were talking to us, and carried us away from the police until you felt the issue was sorted, so we did not have to either run away or get put in jail.

We gave the BMD multiple warnings to get out of there after he insisted on giving us heroin, and I pulled a knife, gave him time to run, and then stabbed him once when he refused to leave. We didn't chase him down and continue to stab him once he left(he also made threats to kill us, so if we had, we would have had perfectly valid reasons). We only left after an arrest warrant was placed on me, after the 5 minutes or so they were arresting the black market dealer.

The spot where the construction was was about as far away from what could be deemed public, while technically still under the "not behind closed doors or within the nexus" definition. Blacklisting someone for that(even if warnings have been given for similar constructions that were just within the definition again) is pathetic, it's like blacklisting people from OOC for saying "damn" in it, or banning someone for NLR, because they returned 4 minutes and 50 seconds after they died and everyone involved had left the area. It doesn't solve any issues, and is just purely punishing players because you can over petty issues, rather than because they've actually caused any issues or misbehaved.

The fact that this, combined with me being dragged to a roof for 20 minutes because I stabbed a man who was refusing to leave, and then attacked me, and then stabbed another man with him who also refused to leave, and then used a non lethal weapon when he returned to get rid of him, while his fearRP violation you pointed out was totally ignored(in the exact way the BMD you keep bringing up ignored fearRP directly infront of you faced no punishment), and the fact you very much appeared to be entirely ignoring the far more obvious cases of "public building"(just hanging around ours for around 10 minutes not talking to us, then punishing Dave and continuing to hang around doing nothing) very much makes it seem like you're more determined to punish me and Dave for something, than anyone else. Unless you normally see a dupe down the most obscure, and dark area in the city, and think "oh, that's public building, I'll spend 10 minutes contacting another admin to see if I should punish the owners of it".

Now. I gave you a 3 hour blacklist, which is more then fair. I even got advised to ban you

"I sent you to jail for jaywalking, which is more than fair. I even got advised to execute you"

[DoomDude1]

Denied.

Any sort of build outside of owned property is considered public building and users are you ask for permission every time they want to spawn it. Whether a Supervising Administrator tells you alright or God, you are to ask each and every time, again and again. Also, your attitude concerning this case has room for improvement.