'Random Tranqing'

[Joey Skylynx]

Your name: Joey Skylynx

Your ban ID: 10781

Banned by: [FL] Zzzzap

Server: Both

Involved:
Two Corleones
Zzzzap

Why we should unban you:
So let's get descriptive[I love doing this],
My buddy Teddi and I, were driving around in our Trabants looking for an area to set up base for our 'Scavenger Family' RP. While driving nearby to Villa[Corleone Spawn] Teddi's internet crashed, and he slammed into a wall in his trabant, and I pulled over behind his car and parked. When he reconnected he told me to just wait there while he comes back around from the main-city. So instead of sitting against a wall, I jumped on a nearby rock and watched the nearby setting, and suddenly... Bullet Tracers. I jumped behind the rock, and figured it was someone shooting from the Villa so I popped up, and looked around to see some Corleones looking around, and from my perspective, scanning the area I jumped down from.
With a little bit of heat already in mind I waited for about two minutes, and pulled out a tranq rifle, and aimed down the sights and tranqed one of the guys in the furthest back building in the Villa Community. What I didn't realize at the time was that one of the other Corleones was in the building the person was moving in and out of. From my posistion the Corleone ran up to his tranqed friend, and freaked out and began running back to the main Corleone house to probably alarm the other Corleones. Not taking the risk/chances of getting shot at I tranqed him as well, and got into my Trabant and began to relocate to the Gas Station when suddenly I was yanked out of my car by Zap who believed I was random tranqing the Corleones outside their house.

Now lets get straight too the fun fact: The Corleones didn't shoot me, but someone in the nearby area was firing of a Glock apparently. This is where the bullets came from, which would provide that I was acting in self-defense and not random derping. The two members of the Corleones didn't die, I was the only one who lost anything[tranq ammo], and I was banned at first for two weeks do to apparent 'ban history' with the supposed call of 'random tranqing' which was more of non-lethal self defense.
I believe I should be unbanned simply because I had reason to reply with force... Non-Lethal Force at that.

[Fleet Admiral Zapington]

Alright lets see here.

It all started out with me getting an @ call on v33 from Demon and Predkill about some random tranqulizing minutes after the server was up after a crash.
When I arrive to the scene I saw Predkill and Demon unconscious on the ground at suburbs, obviously tranqulized.

I go to the logs and see that Joey Skylynx equipped darts and a tranquilizer as the first, so I TP'd him to the area where he said they randomly shot at him.
That's funny, so I checked the logs again and none of them even equipped a weapon. They were harmless players that just spawned as mafia.

The only guy that equipped a gun was Doron, who were unemployed, and he was nowhere to be seen around the area.

So Joey you randomly tranquilized 2 people out of thought, you know better than this and you could of handled this totally different, but instead you decided to become aggressive and tranquilize 2 innocent players.

Not to mention that you should of called me on @ instead of taking matters into your own hands, IF somebody actually were randomly shooting at you.

You're ban was long due to your ban history.

[Joey Skylynx]

It's not random. I won't stress how much I hate people blanket terming. I was reacting to something which I deemed a threat to me.
If every incident of self-defense is judged as 'random' or 'aggresive action' then roleplay cannot be permitted to exist in the server. I acted to protect myself in a non-lethal matter, and tagged people to prevent myself from being shot at/killed. Even though it turned out later that it wasn't them, the amount of incident after the shots passed by me from the Corleone Household[scanning area, looking for me, and otherwise] made me believe they were shooting at me.
It's a puzzle which was put together incorrectly, and I was banned on information I had not what the admins were able to see.
No one lost anything, no one died... Whats the issue?

[Killjoy]

The only guy that equipped a gun was Doron, who were unemployed, and he was nowhere to be seen around the area.

[Joey Skylynx]

The only guy that equipped a gun was Doron, who were unemployed, and he was nowhere to be seen around the area.

What if the guy got into a car and drove off? By the time Zzzap had probably seen the logs of the gun being eqipped[probably about 5-10 minutes] a user could of got into a car and drove off... Hell he could of walked away from the area after firing the shots, and been already at Car Dealer by that period.
All I know was that I was shot at, I saw a group of guys who seemed to be watching and using tactics to attack me, and I reacted with a stream of non-lethal tranq fire.
Which didn't harm them... Even then the fact that I was returning fire nullifies the concept that it was random, and therefore null'd the reason to why I was banned in the first place.

[Fleet Admiral Zapington]

You can never tranqulize nor kill people for that matter just because you thought they were shooting at you.
How would you feel if you just spawned and somebody randomly tranqulized you, and then accused you for randomly shooting at you? Both of these guys were upset by your tranqulizing, so justice were served.

Your aggressive behavior made you do a stupid decision, which ended up in you getting banned. End of story.
And how about you stop dealing with stuff yourself and use @? Or are you too afraid that people think you are a kiss-up?

Also, I TP'd to Demon when I was phased, I quickly took a look at the area and nobody was seen to be near the area. Not in the forest nor BP, or the lakehouse. After that I took a look at the logs, saw you equipping a tranquilizer, so I TP'd you to the scene.

and I reacted with a stream of non-lethal tranq fire.
Which didn't harm them... Even then the fact that I was returning fire nullifies the concept that it was random, and therefore null'd the reason to why I was banned in the first place.

Wow that argument is very invalid.
Just because it doesn't harm anyone, makes it okay?

I would like to hear more admins opinion on this.

[Joey Skylynx]

You can never tranqulize nor kill people for that matter just because you thought they were shooting at you.
How would you feel if you just spawned and somebody randomly tranqulized you, and then accused you for randomly shooting at you? Both of these guys were upset by your tranqulizing, so justice were served.

So I can't defend myself in irregular combat? Flawless logic.
I scanned the area for roughly a minute before actually firing any shots, and all I could see was the Corleones who seemed to be scanning for me.
And regarding the 'in their shoes' question, I wouldn't bitch.

Your aggressive behavior made you do a stupid decision, which ended up in you getting banned. End of story.
And how about you stop dealing with stuff yourself and use @? Or are you too afraid that people think you are a kiss-up?

Nothing personal, I hate administrative forces in general. Not the players, but the fact that things which aren't coded are forced into some happy-list of guidelines to follow. Rulelists are never used properly, and are manipulated and loophole'd over time.
It's not the matter of kissing-up, but I don't want to seem like a manipulative asshole to some people who are actually good friends of mine.

Wow that argument is very invalid.
Just because it doesn't harm anyone, makes it okay?

Have they lost anything? No. It was a tranq dart...
Has their 'operations' stopped producing money? No... It's coded to continue.
Did I go over there and attempt to hostage them? No. I tranqed and got ready to drive away from the area to avoid anymore violence.

[beflok]

First I think the ban needs to be lengthened only because of the amount of bans joey has. That is just how most admins do it when a player exceeds like 10-12 bans they need to be banned for either perm or an extended period of time depending on the rules broken and what not. Nothing against joey in me saying this just how normal procedure works.

Now just judging by the story Joey has stated I think the ban was valid. If you tranq a player that was not doing anything wrong to you... then it IS random to them. Its like you getting shot at from behind, you turn around and there are two people with no guns showing and you kill one or both of them. That is the same thing to me at least.

I mean for all anyone knows it could have been some troll unemployed standing inside a tree shooting at you just to mess with you it might not have even been the Corleones at all...

You tranqing them without evidence it was them is not a valid reason to tranq at all. There are so many situations that could have happened but you tranqed them in hoping it was them.

[StillAlive]

Hmm. Personally I like to put ingame situations out in real life to understand them better. I think you guys are missing a point. Joey didn't use lethal force, but instead he used a "harmless" weapon, the tranquilizer.

Now, I'm not really clever on this area in real life but I can't imagine a soldier/cop just standing there looking stupid. He/she would act. So to ensure ones own safety Joey decided to fire his non-lethal weapon against nearby possible treats. He wasn't in a city or at a crowded area. The possibility of other persons being the guilty ones were very small.

So to sum up. For me this more sounds as a misunderstanding than rulebreaking. Hell, if there were no other people in the area I highly doubt that I personally would've done otherwise than Joey did.

This may not have been the best RP way to do it, I think Joey can also admit to that. But I don't think he deserves a ban for it. Highest punishment would be taking away a roleplay point.

[Killjoy]

I don't really see how tranqing unarmed people and running away qualifies as self defense.
Firstly, they were unarmed, so they did not pose a significant threat and in such cases you would continue looking for those armed targets.
Secondly, if they were indeed armed hostiles, how would tranqing and running away solve the situation?