Camorro declares war on Lucky 7... Or not?

[Grape]

The fruits have been given to the ally but they to do not take our gifts. This disrespect has been taken and our actions, due to our state of power, should've been expected. The children work hard for the fruits and therefore they should get their reward. The fruits are powerful.

Yes we are! With our powers combined, we can do anything!

[Tomo]

I would agree that the timing of these clan/group changes wasn't ideal, as in hindsight, it would likely result in a reaction like the one which has followed it due to the recent drama between Camorro and Lucky 7.

However, I don't think that these changes will have any significant effect on whether or not actions would take place. It all comes down to whether or not there is enough reason for Camorro to take action on them in the first place, regardless of what has changed in these guidelines. Nothing that is in the new guidelines will have changed the outcome of the decision about the whether or not actions could take place. That decision is made by the clan officers obviously, and the conclusion of that discussion would not have been any different before or after these changes, as the ideas of what is deemed to be aggressive have not been affected by these guideline revisions. The only difference now is what would happen after that decision has been made.

These changes are more of a step in the right direction in terms of so called "passive" clans previously being able to be pretty much immune from wars and conflict due to their [Pas] tags. I understand that [Pas] clans could invalidate their Passive status before by acting too aggressive, but that is something which has been carried across to groups guidelines now unless I'm mistaken, and is still something that the clan officers would have to determine.

So as far as I can see, the argument about the guidelines being introduced in the middle of all this drama isn’t that much of an substantial one. If it is decided that Camorro do have enough reason to take action, you can now basically either make them your official bitches in a FearRP relationship or if they decided to seek assistance from another clan, a war would ensue. So, while your options are now different, they are both still undeniably in your favour and you have the clear upper hand in both, if action is approved.

If the argument is more about whether or not Lucky 7 did enough bad shit in the first place to warrant action from Camorro, that should be a discussion to be had in private between Jan, Forgee and the Clan Officers.

[don]

I would agree that the timing of these clan/group changes wasn't ideal, as in hindsight, it would likely result in a reaction like the one which has followed it due to the recent drama between Camorro and Lucky 7.

However, I don't think that these changes will have any significant effect on whether or not actions would take place. It all comes down to whether or not there is enough reason for Camorro to take action on them in the first place, regardless of what has changed in these guidelines. Nothing that is in the new guidelines will have changed the outcome of the decision about the whether or not actions could take place. That decision is made by the clan officers obviously, and the conclusion of that discussion would not have been any different before or after these changes, as the ideas of what is deemed to be aggressive have not been affected by these guideline revisions. The only difference now is what would happen after that decision has been made.

These changes are more of a step in the right direction in terms of so called "passive" clans previously being able to be pretty much immune from wars and conflict due to their [Pas] tags. I understand that [Pas] clans could invalidate their Passive status before by acting too aggressive, but that is something which has been carried across to groups guidelines now unless I'm mistaken, and is still something that the clan officers would have to determine.

So as far as I can see, the argument about the guidelines being introduced in the middle of all this drama isn’t that much of an substantial one. If it is decided that Camorro do have enough reason to take action, you can now basically either make them your official bitches in a FearRP relationship or if they decided to seek assistance from another clan, a war would ensue. So, while your options are now different, they are both still undeniably in your favour and you have the clear upper hand in both, if action is approved.

If the argument is more about whether or not Lucky 7 did enough bad shit in the first place to warrant action from Camorro, that should be a discussion to be had in private between Jan, Forgee and the Clan Officers.

Its fairly obvious whats gone on its all out there. I appreciate your honest view on the situation as someone with no relation to any side. Im sure there is no bias in what you say. However, you said it yourself the timing wasnt ideal.

DVN said something along the lines of introducing it after the lucky 7 and camorro beef has ended. However, Joe Joe pushed it with other members of the staff team. Joe Joe is biased, so just put that into the picture its fairly obvious why he had it pushed. He shouldnt have the power he has within the clan world when he doesnt have a clue what day it is regarding the clan business.

I just think this just shows what FL has become. A literal joke, imagine if lucky 7 was ran by me for example and i wanted to pull out of the beef even though i caused it with my replies towards jan, i wouldnt have been able to do this nor would have Joe Joe done it for me. Its because it best fits him and his friends. How i see it. If you can prove my opinion wrong please do because i hope im seeing it wrong but i dont think i am.

[JackZ]

I think Clan Officers shouldn't be allowed to be involved in the clan world, Just makes bias.

But at the same time that's a bit shitty for them personally.

[don]

I think Clan Officers shouldn't be allowed to be involved in the clan world, Just makes bias.

But at the same time that's a bit shitty for them personally.

or just look at everything from a birds eye view, dont take anything personal.

This way you can admit youre wrong, prove someone theyre wrong, be cool calm and collected in situations some take personal.

You just have to be fit for the role.

[Dragnort_]

I wish I was as cool as these admins

[Awestruck]

I wish I was as cool as these admins

You never will be

[Dragnort_]

I wish I was as cool as these admins

You never will be

See you in Staff Reports mate.

[Falcon]

This is retarded, hasn’t been a war in ages and this one might just be interesting. But oh wait apparently the clans/groups thing changes almost immediately. Suck it up and fight.

[General Rickets]

Alright I thought i'd let this roll for a little and it just gets more and more ridiculous.

I never said that. As I say again please read the guidelines. The guidelines state if Groups get too aggressive they can be dragged into war. You need to stop listening to what people are writing here and read it yourself because at the moment, players dont seem to understand the premise of the new guidelines. Its to ensure no one is immune unlike the old guidelines.

What do you mean by too aggresive though? You need to make it clear, what makes it too aggresive?

Threatening behaviour, continuous slander. ETC. Stuff that would make an Aggressive Group want to retaliate.

So then what is wrong with Jan delcaring war knowing that he said that Lucky have been 24/7 slandering and talking shit?

Well its on hold at the moment because from what I have read the comments were OOC comments. Which you cannot use to declare war. As well as other factors. I am not saying it isnt happen it just needs to be discussed between us all.

The clan section of the forums is supposed to be incharacter we posted an incharacter thread and thus the replies following from EITHER CLAN LEADER OR MEMBERS should be IC if anything this is forgee proving he does not deserve to have an official clan or a verified group due to the lack of his ability to operate the forum side of the role properly. 

What annoys me the most is how personally some people take clan politics like this. It should all be in character, yet some people still get offended and take it too far.

There is no conspiracy. A lot of of things have stayed the same honestly compared to the last set of guidelines. Just very bad timing to have them released obviously. There was no intention of trying to "loophole".

Wasnt forgee (admin) the one who refused to stay IC to begin with

He posted replies and said they were in character via steam chat and then clearly went back on his word when he refused to believe or comprehend what he started.

In the spoilered screenshot DVN warns EVERYONE to then reply with IC responses inwhich forgee replies "no" to one of our posts, is this what official clans or groups are supposed to do? IS this how they operate now? Why have standards dropped so low? I understand he does stuff ingame but realistically he just makes machines and they make him money, the RP is sub par at best.

Spoiler :

I can understand people's frustration with the new guidelines being added which has obviously caused some backlash, I did recommend introducing them after we sorted the Lucky 7 & Camorro situation but it was pushed ahead after the team had a discussion.

Just thinking in plain, real terms it's not really fair is it? Jan obviously you have the drive to shut down Lucky 7 which, with no disrespect would be a walk in the park for Camorro. Forgee is at the table handling bets with 3 customers and 10 Camorro members come in with rifles, shoot the place up, kill the VIP and they can't really fight back. It's not really a fighting clan, I believe many of you are driven to simply shut down Lucky 7 but aren't thinking in a logical sense.

In reality I don't think Grosvenors Casinos in real life keep a back stash of war equipment...

That is what used to happen in real life if you think about it in a logical sense, the mafia was a force to be reckoned with and should be treated with respect. Forgee chose to be disrespectful IC on multiple occasions and on the forums in the replies for this to not have consequences would show weakness from us which would then mean we lose footing and power within the city. That is not going to happen. There are sources all over the internet which have evidence of these sort of actions going on following failure to follow terms and conditions so what more do you want? 

If the argument is more about whether or not Lucky 7 did enough bad shit in the first place to warrant action from Camorro, that should be a discussion to be had in private between Jan, Forgee and the Clan Officers.

no rickets feelsbadman

la mafia e invencible

EDIT: Little anecdote for you - When I was in Bulgaria on holiday there was a mafia shooting, they drove past a restaurant and just sprayed bullets through it. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...n-bar.html yes its the daily mail, chose to believe it or not but this stuff happens. Case closed.