[FL:RP] Monkey [Scamming] - Printable Version +- Fearless Forums (https://fearlessrp.net) +-- Forum: The Courthouse (https://fearlessrp.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=13) +--- Forum: Player Report (https://fearlessrp.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=14) +---- Forum: Approved (https://fearlessrp.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=29) +---- Thread: [FL:RP] Monkey [Scamming] (/showthread.php?tid=99810)

[FL:RP] Monkey [Scamming] - TheMineralPhynix - 05-14-2022 Reported User(s):  [FL:RP] Monkey Reported User's SteamID: STEAM_0:0:633511626 Date & Time (GMT): 11/3/22 @ 00:00 GMT Summary of the incident I have given Monkey several loans and also given 1-2 month more time to pay it back.. but nothing has come up until today except the statement that he has no idea how to pay it back. Evidence Date : 03/11/2022 No.1 (First Loan) Loan $200.000 | payback until 04/01/22 | Total $326.000 https://ibb.co/R4PnMSM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date : 03/14/2022 No.1  Loan $250.000 | payback until 03/28/22 | Total $355.000 https://ibb.co/bgFyhH7 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date : 03/15/2022 (4 Loans at one day) No.1 Loan $40.000 | payback until 03/17/22 | Total $42.400 https://ibb.co/XLL1jnj No.2 Date : 03/15/2022 Loan $500.000 | payback until 04/12/22 | Total $920.000 https://ibb.co/1zNdc90 & https://ibb.co/q5sNgJX No.3 Date : 03/15/2022 Loan $100.000 | payback until 03/29/22 | Total $142.000 https://ibb.co/9p4dgqX No.4 Date : 03/15/2022 Loan $250.000 | payback until 04/15/22 | Total $482.500 https://ibb.co/kXR6hxQ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date : 03/16/2022 No.1 Loan $500.000 | payback until 04/06/22 | Total $815.000 https://ibb.co/xFGfy7B ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date : 03/17/2022 (2 Loans) No.1 Loan $500.000 | payback until 04/07/22 | Total $815.000 https://ibb.co/z4KM8Gq No.2 Loan $400.000 | payback until 03/31/22 | Total $568.000 https://ibb.co/xDkTBj5 & https://ibb.co/MM0L5Qm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date : 03/18/2022 No.1 Loan $500.000 | payback until 04/08/22 | Total $815.000 https://ibb.co/zsSsvwg ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date : 03/31/2022 No.1 Loan $500.000 | payback until 04/14/22 | Total $710.000 https://ibb.co/82sRBF9 & https://ibb.co/XWLwsL1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The total amount the player owes me is $5,990,900 RE: [FL:RP] Monkey [Scamming] - Pollux - 05-24-2022 Could you show your conversation with him in regards to paying back the loan? The main issue I see here is Monkey doesn't have any means to pay it back even if his entire inventory was sold at 100% value. I do have to ask as to why you gave him so many loans even after he failed to pay previous ones back? This is just so I can understand the situation better. RE: [FL:RP] Monkey [Scamming] - TheMineralPhynix - 05-24-2022 I gave him the loans because I trusted him and because he always said I promise I'll pay them back. On April 29th I gave him another 10 days before I send off this PR and a few days later he just said: I don't even know how to save money. On May 3rd he told me that he still has no money. https://ibb.co/smFMXwf https://ibb.co/6ssnnDn RE: [FL:RP] Monkey [Scamming] - Pollux - 05-26-2022 Alright, I know that this technically is scamming but common sense really does apply here. You shouldn't give someone loan after loan even after they fail to pay and especially without collateral. Monkey also shouldn't have accepted loans that he realistically can not pay. The way I see it, some fault lies on both of you however Monkey did break a rule in the end. This situation really could've been prevented from either of you. Our logs only go back 30 days, which means I'm limited in how much I can really investigate this. I also believe that you should've reported the incident sooner instead of giving more loans. From what I can see however a lot of the money was wasted in buying vehicles then quick selling them, likely due to Monkey not being aware of him only getting 50% of the value back from that. I'm going to give you (roughly, this was a quick estimate) the wasted money in manufacturing and selling. I am also going to sell the vehicles Monkey currently owns. This comes to about 2 million in total, I'm going to make this 3 million which is all I'm going to refund you. This isn't the amount you stated for a few reasons: You should've reported this earlier instead of giving yet more loans to someone who has yet to even begin to pay back most of them. While rule 10 does allow exceptions to the 7 day reporting period, it still should be reported as soon as there is enough evidence for it. I'm essentially excluding the first few loans due to this. The loans have clearly been given out recklessly, without any form of colleterial or consideration to how much you're even giving. While loans do technically fall under the scamming rule, a lot of consideration is taken into intent. I don't see any reason to believe Monkey has malicious intent when taking these loans and it really baffles me as to why you gave out so many to someone who clearly doesn't understand them well. Your calculation includes your interest rates, which we don't tend to take into account when refunding in a situation like this. Our focus more on what you've actually lost, not what you could've earned. The total amount you gave him is a bit less than 3.8 million, so this refund isn't too far off especially if you take away the first few loans. I'm going to give Monkey a day ban, I'm not willing to ban him for long as it's clear to me there was no malicious intent in him asking for them but rather a lack of understanding, at some point it clearly became extremely difficult to pay it back due to the amount and this should've been noticed by both of you. Not knowing obviously isn't an excuse for breaking rules, which is why I'm giving just a day. This will also allow the incident to be on his record properly and hopefully prevent it from happening again. In the future I do advise you ensure anyone you're giving a loan to is fully aware of what that really means, rather than a simple yes/no in chat. I would also strongly recommend taking out colleterial, essentially inventory items or something in case of non-repayment. We're also going to be taking a look at the rules due to this incident, as it has highlighted a big flaw when it comes to loans and scamming. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Approved. RE: [FL:RP] Monkey [Scamming] - Pollux - 05-26-2022 Moved.