(06-20-2022, 10:09 PM)Bobby Wrote:

(06-20-2022, 08:58 PM)Nadrickk Wrote: LYNCHY I think what the issue is, back in the day it was not uncommon that 2 rebels could wipe an entire police force. Today got wiped 2 against 3-4? And that bother's you, but from the police side, It's a success becasue now you can actually "raid" and have a chance of winning, without being killed by massive unrealistic "non-RP" bases etc.

I understand why it bothers you, but as an "rebel" player, I guess it's just time to rethink how much cop-baiting is worth now, and maybe it's time to be a little more carefull, compared to older days...I like that change, both as a contra-whore and part-time police RP'er

Edit: Back in the days, even SWAT / SRU got wiped pretty easily. I think this rework was quite needed

Time and time again police fail because of a lack of communication and good tactics. I have never seen a wipe being part of swat/police that used breaches properly and then it was a fair shootout. Why can't a better criminal shooter wipe a PD aswell? It's tough to do a wipe before any rules like that are implemented and it's not always due to the base they have. You're also forgetting it costs criminals money to own the building, buy the contraband, buy the ammo, buy the guns, buy the kevlar and the health kits etc.

When cops only were given pistols they still had fun in their job and if needed the Swat team came in and usually gave a fair fight.

(06-20-2022, 10:18 PM)Pollux Wrote:

(06-20-2022, 10:09 PM)Bobby Wrote:

(06-20-2022, 08:58 PM)Nadrickk Wrote: LYNCHY I think what the issue is, back in the day it was not uncommon that 2 rebels could wipe an entire police force. Today got wiped 2 against 3-4? And that bother's you, but from the police side, It's a success becasue now you can actually "raid" and have a chance of winning, without being killed by massive unrealistic "non-RP" bases etc.

I understand why it bothers you, but as an "rebel" player, I guess it's just time to rethink how much cop-baiting is worth now, and maybe it's time to be a little more carefull, compared to older days...I like that change, both as a contra-whore and part-time police RP'er

Edit: Back in the days, even SWAT / SRU got wiped pretty easily. I think this rework was quite needed

Time and time again police fail because of a lack of communication and good tactics. I have never seen a wipe being part of swat/police that used breaches properly and then it was a fair shootout. Why can't a better criminal shooter wipe a PD aswell? It's tough to do a wipe before any rules like that are implemented and it's not always due to the base they have. You're also forgetting it costs criminals money to own the building, buy the contraband, buy the ammo, buy the guns, buy the kevlar and the health kits etc.

When cops only were given pistols they still had fun in their job and if needed the Swat team came in and usually gave a fair fight.

Cops do pay for their weapons, it's discounted (about half of market price) but they're still paying. They also have to pay for kevlar and health kits like criminals do. One person should not and currently can't (unless the police really mess up) wipe out the entire police force, numbers do matter as they should. You can't lone wolf everything by design now, you need a team of people if you want to do high-level crime which is how it should be. One thing I can promise you is we're not going to mess up the balance and go back to how it used to be before.

(06-20-2022, 10:31 PM)Bobby Wrote: I know cops pay for some of their weapons (thought they spawn with kevlar?) by mentioning the cost of criminals it'd not discounting what cops might spend because it doesn't work like that, it's the feasible of being a criminal but mostly I'm just pointing out that if police don't win some of their raids the criminals still have a net loss no matter what. When a cop raid is successful its a double loss for the criminal (contra and guns + kevlar) 

I get it and don't think you do have to go back and you want a hard stance but I think those that are cops and others should try basing for a bit and see how it is for them and vice versa crims should go cop and see how it is.

Also why was metal banned because that makes it so cover no longer exists and cops can spam wallbang?

I don't exactly remember lone wolf bases again if cops could use breaches properly it wouldn't be possible

(06-20-2022, 11:58 PM)Boonan Wrote:

(06-20-2022, 10:31 PM)Bobby Wrote: I know cops pay for some of their weapons (thought they spawn with kevlar?) by mentioning the cost of criminals it'd not discounting what cops might spend because it doesn't work like that, it's the feasible of being a criminal but mostly I'm just pointing out that if police don't win some of their raids the criminals still have a net loss no matter what. When a cop raid is successful its a double loss for the criminal (contra and guns + kevlar) 

I get it and don't think you do have to go back and you want a hard stance but I think those that are cops and others should try basing for a bit and see how it is for them and vice versa crims should go cop and see how it is.

Also why was metal banned because that makes it so cover no longer exists and cops can spam wallbang?

I don't exactly remember lone wolf bases again if cops could use breaches properly it wouldn't be possible

Metal plates aren't banned entirely, however a moderate restriction has been implemented to stop the overuse of the plates as they make all bases look like a doomfort and doesn't really fit the 'city setting' we have going on - it also makes players think twice about making bases as they have to add some realism and thought into making it look somewhat 'normal' rather than a cluster of fence mazes and metal bulletproof plates

(06-21-2022, 06:00 AM)Bobby Wrote:

(06-20-2022, 11:58 PM)Boonan Wrote:

(06-20-2022, 10:31 PM)Bobby Wrote: I know cops pay for some of their weapons (thought they spawn with kevlar?) by mentioning the cost of criminals it'd not discounting what cops might spend because it doesn't work like that, it's the feasible of being a criminal but mostly I'm just pointing out that if police don't win some of their raids the criminals still have a net loss no matter what. When a cop raid is successful its a double loss for the criminal (contra and guns + kevlar) 

I get it and don't think you do have to go back and you want a hard stance but I think those that are cops and others should try basing for a bit and see how it is for them and vice versa crims should go cop and see how it is.

Also why was metal banned because that makes it so cover no longer exists and cops can spam wallbang?

I don't exactly remember lone wolf bases again if cops could use breaches properly it wouldn't be possible

Metal plates aren't banned entirely, however a moderate restriction has been implemented to stop the overuse of the plates as they make all bases look like a doomfort and doesn't really fit the 'city setting' we have going on - it also makes players think twice about making bases as they have to add some realism and thought into making it look somewhat 'normal' rather than a cluster of fence mazes and metal bulletproof plates

Is it OK to use metal plates then make them invisible? also fence mazes have always been against doomforting rules

Don't get me wrong these changes will be interesting I'm just clarifying some things

(06-21-2022, 08:03 AM)Archer Wrote: -snip-

(06-21-2022, 08:03 AM)Archer Wrote: Speaking as someone who (mostly) plays police - I have mixed opinions on the subject.

For one, I do not think the issue of "police losing everytime" was as acute as it is portrayed here. I've seen plenty of situations where a well-coordinated police&SWAT/SRU force has successfully won, even in so-called doomforts. It is a matter of timing, planning, skill and communication.

That being said, it is true that before these changes, the criminal forces did in fact have an undue advantage. While I approve of the changes in principle, IMO some specific changes are - while well-intended - will be counter-productive in the long term. I'll write down a shortlist of changes I am reasonaby critical of:

1) No shooting from rooftops - the rule states that this gives an unfair advantage. I do not understand what sort of unfair advantage that could give - police and SWAT can use the M14 if they have purchased it, and the SWAT armory itself has sniper rifles. This means that even if any hostiles are on rooftops, government forces can more often than not engage them from relatively safe distances.

2) No more "tight" corridors - I approve of this rule in principle, because some bases really do have unfair corridors. However, it is absurd to put a limit of three people side by side - that means that practically the entire maximum government force can cross it in mere seconds. I would advocate for the limitation being two people instead.

Spoiler :