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RE: Longevity - Haarek - 07-07-2024

(07-03-2024, 10:31 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: What made FL a good basis for roleplay was the fact it had one of the strongest communities of roleplayers, for a non-serious roleplay community. The gamemode was a pile of shit that let you do like, two things at most, but people worked with and around it to interact and build their roleplays.
  • BlackDog's prisons camps, done outside of the gamemode, the President would order police to drive to some random camp.
  • Safira's sex / wedding RPs, literally had nothing to do with the gamemode.
  • Vauld's server events? Almost all of that was player interaction, no use of gamemode systems apart from like, broadcasts.
  • Killjoy / Eisehorn's Clan RPs, literally having elements which happened off-server, because it was down to interactions.
  • Dr KuLa with his iconic "surrender now, I am heavily armed". The only gamemode system there is having a gun.
  • ForceGhost and Co with their Givens RP, literally relying on RP interactions.
  • So many hundreds of events, boiling down to builds and RP interaction.

Aha, saying the game mode was a pile of shit is simply not true. It wasn't. It didn't have all the features we now regard as inherent and it crashed and broke a lot, but it surely was completely playable. And we had good developers. You are correct in that it was the people who made FL who it was - but more than anything it was the staff team. What FL had back then was a large influx of new players that were retained.

Some of the events / people you listed are (By the way) ridiculous - because we both know that is not what made FL popular - because a large majority of all FL players were aggressive RPérs basing at UM, or police or swat. This dyings community persistence in catering to passiveRP is ignorant and self destructive - as passiveRP came as a reaction to the aggressive. If you performed passiveRP on FL you were regarded as special - a top of the cut - but for this to be possible you will need to have a large player base of aggressive RPérs. I have outlined such thoughts countless times in earlier posts - but I doubt you have read them.

What FL needs to be successful is a short join time (Especially in this time and age) - good performance (High FPS) - visibility in the server browser (At all costs), a fixed economy and a catering towards aggressive RP (properly implemented).

Quote:The gamemode is a canvas for roleplayers to paint on, but what can the gamemode do if there are no roleplayers?

No. Canvas to paint on my ass. What the fuck? It is a place to go grow weed, print money, take people hostage and raid.

You see, you have completely lost sight of the true nature of this game mode - and so have your companions. That is also why this place will never be revived without a proper management change.

Quote:But that didn't happen, we lost the roleplayers, to age, to other commitments, to toxicity, for a lack of things to do.
Just a bunch of excuses. FL lost players due to countless bad decisions. Like fucking up the economy, being too strict on rules inhibiting aggressiveRP and reducing performance. All the kinky, asslicking cringe role-players stayed - the players left.


Quote:You can try and say "you have absolutely no intuition of what FL used to be before", but I was literally there.
Ok? I was too. And we disagree. I think you are delusional in this matter.


Quote:You've got your rose tinted glasses on, trying to remember the "good old days"
Okay. How many times do I have to hear this?
It must be current managements "go-to" phrase.

Quote:that only existed because the community made it so, and to try and ignore that is so fucking disrespectful to the hundreds of people who made the community what it was.

Such an obvious statement. Of course the community made it what it was. We just disagree about how the community was and what made FL great. Such a cheap stab.


Quote:insult on the person engaging in good faith. Crazy.

I don't care what the fuck you do in life, learn to write coherently. For fucks sake.

RE: Longevity - Woods3yy - 07-07-2024



Spoiler :
(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
(07-03-2024, 10:31 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: What made FL a good basis for roleplay was the fact it had one of the strongest communities of roleplayers, for a non-serious roleplay community. The gamemode was a pile of shit that let you do like, two things at most, but people worked with and around it to interact and build their roleplays.
  • BlackDog's prisons camps, done outside of the gamemode, the President would order police to drive to some random camp.
  • Safira's sex / wedding RPs, literally had nothing to do with the gamemode.
  • Vauld's server events? Almost all of that was player interaction, no use of gamemode systems apart from like, broadcasts.
  • Killjoy / Eisehorn's Clan RPs, literally having elements which happened off-server, because it was down to interactions.
  • Dr KuLa with his iconic "surrender now, I am heavily armed". The only gamemode system there is having a gun.
  • ForceGhost and Co with their Givens RP, literally relying on RP interactions.
  • So many hundreds of events, boiling down to builds and RP interaction.

Aha, saying the game mode was a pile of shit is simply not true. It wasn't. It didn't have all the features we now regard as inherent and it crashed and broke a lot, but it surely was completely playable. And we had good developers. You are correct in that it was the people who made FL who it was - but more than anything it was the staff team. What FL had back then was a large influx of new players that were retained.

Some of the events / people you listed are (By the way) ridiculous - because we both know that is not what made FL popular - because a large majority of all FL players were aggressive RPérs basing at UM, or police or swat. This dyings community persistence in catering to passiveRP is ignorant and self destructive - as passiveRP came as a reaction to the aggressive. If you performed passiveRP on FL you were regarded as special - a top of the cut - but for this to be possible you will need to have a large player base of aggressive RPérs. I have outlined such thoughts countless times in earlier posts - but I doubt you have read them.

What FL needs to be successful is a short join time (Especially in this time and age) - good performance (High FPS) - visibility in the server browser (At all costs), a fixed economy and a catering towards aggressive RP (properly implemented).

Quote:The gamemode is a canvas for roleplayers to paint on, but what can the gamemode do if there are no roleplayers?

No. Canvas to paint on my ass. What the fuck? It is a place to go grow weed, print money, take people hostage and raid.

You see, you have completely lost sight of the true nature of this game mode - and so have your companions. That is also why this place will never be revived without a proper management change.

Quote:But that didn't happen, we lost the roleplayers, to age, to other commitments, to toxicity, for a lack of things to do.
Just a bunch of excuses. FL lost players due to countless bad decisions. Like fucking up the economy, being too strict on rules inhibiting aggressiveRP and reducing performance. All the kinky, asslicking cringe role-players stayed - the players left.


Quote:You can try and say "you have absolutely no intuition of what FL used to be before", but I was literally there.
Ok? I was too. And we disagree. I think you are delusional in this matter.


Quote:You've got your rose tinted glasses on, trying to remember the "good old days"
Okay. How many times do I have to hear this?
It must be current managements "go-to" phrase.

Quote:that only existed because the community made it so, and to try and ignore that is so fucking disrespectful to the hundreds of people who made the community what it was.

Such an obvious statement. Of course the community made it what it was. We just disagree about how the community was and what made FL great. Such a cheap stab.


Quote:insult on the person engaging in good faith. Crazy.

I don't care what the fuck you do in life, learn to write coherently. For fucks sake.



If someone says your username my desk starts floating

Braise Mohammed.

RE: Longevity - Doctor Internet - 07-07-2024

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
(07-03-2024, 10:31 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: What made FL a good basis for roleplay was the fact it had one of the strongest communities of roleplayers, for a non-serious roleplay community. The gamemode was a pile of shit that let you do like, two things at most, but people worked with and around it to interact and build their roleplays.
  • BlackDog's prisons camps, done outside of the gamemode, the President would order police to drive to some random camp.
  • Safira's sex / wedding RPs, literally had nothing to do with the gamemode.
  • Vauld's server events? Almost all of that was player interaction, no use of gamemode systems apart from like, broadcasts.
  • Killjoy / Eisehorn's Clan RPs, literally having elements which happened off-server, because it was down to interactions.
  • Dr KuLa with his iconic "surrender now, I am heavily armed". The only gamemode system there is having a gun.
  • ForceGhost and Co with their Givens RP, literally relying on RP interactions.
  • So many hundreds of events, boiling down to builds and RP interaction.

Aha, saying the game mode was a pile of shit is simply not true. It wasn't. It didn't have all the features we now regard as inherent and it crashed and broke a lot, but it surely was completely playable.

It's such a great gamemode when it's constantly fucking breaking and crashing. Do you hear yourself?

It was basically sandbox with cars and guns.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote: And we had good developers.
lol.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote: You are correct in that it was the people who made FL who it was - but more than anything it was the staff team. What FL had back then was a large influx of new players that were retained.
But we didn't, we had a 19% retention rate during the peak of Garry's Mod, where Roleplaying gamemodes were popular.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote: Some of the events / people you listed are (By the way) ridiculous - because we both know that is not what made FL popular - because a large majority of all FL players were aggressive RPérs basing at UM, or police or swat.
Damn, that's still the fucking community, the people. Not the gamemode. The people setting up groups and clans, building defences.

But what does the gamemode do for them?
Guns. And a raid reason (contraband, weed, whatever).

Even when you try and pull a fast one and swing around the point, you're still reinforcing what I say. That's crazy.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote: This dyings community persistence in catering to passiveRP is ignorant and self destructive - as passiveRP came as a reaction to the aggressive. If you performed passiveRP on FL you were regarded as special - a top of the cut - but for this to be possible you will need to have a large player base of aggressive RPérs.
Passive RP only occurs because of aggressive RP? Yeah, damn babe some vagina just got raided down the street, let's do some ERP so I can raid that fat pussy.

Are you talking about the community from 2012, 2016 or 2020, because it feels like you're trying to merge multiple different states of the community for whatever works best for your argument.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote: I have outlined such thoughts countless times in earlier posts - but I doubt you have read them.
Of course you'd think that when I've responded to most of them.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote: What FL needs to be successful is a short join time (Especially in this time and age) - good performance (High FPS) - visibility in the server browser (At all costs), a fixed economy and a catering towards aggressive RP (properly implemented).
Short join time, so long as it doesn't effect content. We've removed so much shit people used for the sake of join time.

Good performance, yeah, no shit.

Visibility in the browser is literally 99% from player counts, which yet-a-fucking-gain comes back to the community.

Fixed economy is fine, but it was players constantly bitching and not supporting anything to fix the economy which prevented us from doing shit until the relaunch. People wanted VCMod, so we couldn't do anything with repairs or fuel. People shot down insurance and other costs for cars. People wanted presents, which fucked the economy more.

Catering towards aggressive RP meaning what? 80% of the staff team was made up of aggressive RPers, the biggest clans were all agressive, so many changes have been nutered to cater to the aggressive RPers, to the detriment of passive RP.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
Quote:The gamemode is a canvas for roleplayers to paint on, but what can the gamemode do if there are no roleplayers?

No. Canvas to paint on my ass. What the fuck? It is a place to go grow weed, print money, take people hostage and raid.
Watch your back when you move those goal-posts, you might blow your back up.
We were talking about players. Passive RPers used the gamemode to RP on, do you disagree with that?
Or are you so blind to other people's perspective that all you can see is you tounge-punching a gun barrel?

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote: You see, you have completely lost sight of the true nature of this game mode - and so have your companions. That is also why this place will never be revived without a proper management change.
okay buddy.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
Quote:But that didn't happen, we lost the roleplayers, to age, to other commitments, to toxicity, for a lack of things to do.
Just a bunch of excuses. FL lost players due to countless bad decisions. Like fucking up the economy, being too strict on rules inhibiting aggressiveRP and reducing performance. All the kinky, asslicking cringe role-players stayed - the players left.
The "kinky, asslicking cringe role-players" left.
Instead you were left with: Riggs the Police Sergeant. Frost the guy who just swapped seats to avoid getting shot. The 15th pedophiles. Crazy how you think that's a great community.

And yeah, rules like "don't make your bases give people fucking stokes when you look at them", fucking crazy rules. "Don't hack and dox people". We should really roll those rules back.

And reducing performance was because we added new systems, that people asked for in suggestions. We should have just ignored the community too, 15/10 plan from Haarek again.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
Quote:You can try and say "you have absolutely no intuition of what FL used to be before", but I was literally there.
Ok? I was too. And we disagree. I think you are delusional in this matter.
I think you were so enclosed in a silo that all you can think about is the good old days back when all you had was guns and a physgun, but you've been willing to ignore the past 8 years to stay in that simple idea you've got in your head. Call me delusional all you like, doesn't change that.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
Quote:You've got your rose tinted glasses on, trying to remember the "good old days"
Okay. How many times do I have to hear this?
It must be current managements "go-to" phrase.
[Image: y1YCIRbMFDSL]
So you heard it from me today, and Pollux 4 months ago.
Oh, and from Equinox over a year ago, and they're not management either so, you want to clarify where else you're hearing this?

Or are you seriously getting mad about hearing the same phrase twice in half a year?

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
Quote:that only existed because the community made it so, and to try and ignore that is so fucking disrespectful to the hundreds of people who made the community what it was.

Such an obvious statement. Of course the community made it what it was. We just disagree about how the community was and what made FL great. Such a cheap stab.
An obvious statement that you ignored, trying to pin everything on the gamemode. Calling it a cheap stab when you're the one who ignored it to begin with in so fucking dishonest.

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
Quote:insult on the person engaging in good faith. Crazy.

I don't care what the fuck you do in life, learn to write coherently. For fucks sake.
It's a run-on sentence, but it's understandable; the writing is coherent, put the fucking effort in.

RE: Longevity - Fultz - 07-07-2024

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
(07-03-2024, 10:31 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: What made FL a good basis for roleplay was the fact it had one of the strongest communities of roleplayers, for a non-serious roleplay community. The gamemode was a pile of shit that let you do like, two things at most, but people worked with and around it to interact and build their roleplays.
  • BlackDog's prisons camps, done outside of the gamemode, the President would order police to drive to some random camp.
  • Safira's sex / wedding RPs, literally had nothing to do with the gamemode.
  • Vauld's server events? Almost all of that was player interaction, no use of gamemode systems apart from like, broadcasts.
  • Killjoy / Eisehorn's Clan RPs, literally having elements which happened off-server, because it was down to interactions.
  • Dr KuLa with his iconic "surrender now, I am heavily armed". The only gamemode system there is having a gun.
  • ForceGhost and Co with their Givens RP, literally relying on RP interactions.
  • So many hundreds of events, boiling down to builds and RP interaction.

Aha, saying the game mode was a pile of shit is simply not true. It wasn't. It didn't have all the features we now regard as inherent and it crashed and broke a lot, but it surely was completely playable. And we had good developers. You are correct in that it was the people who made FL who it was - but more than anything it was the staff team. What FL had back then was a large influx of new players that were retained.

Some of the events / people you listed are (By the way) ridiculous - because we both know that is not what made FL popular - because a large majority of all FL players were aggressive RPérs basing at UM, or police or swat. This dyings community persistence in catering to passiveRP is ignorant and self destructive - as passiveRP came as a reaction to the aggressive. If you performed passiveRP on FL you were regarded as special - a top of the cut - but for this to be possible you will need to have a large player base of aggressive RPérs. I have outlined such thoughts countless times in earlier posts - but I doubt you have read them.

What FL needs to be successful is a short join time (Especially in this time and age) - good performance (High FPS) - visibility in the server browser (At all costs), a fixed economy and a catering towards aggressive RP (properly implemented).

Quote:The gamemode is a canvas for roleplayers to paint on, but what can the gamemode do if there are no roleplayers?

No. Canvas to paint on my ass. What the fuck? It is a place to go grow weed, print money, take people hostage and raid.

You see, you have completely lost sight of the true nature of this game mode - and so have your companions. That is also why this place will never be revived without a proper management change.

Quote:But that didn't happen, we lost the roleplayers, to age, to other commitments, to toxicity, for a lack of things to do.
Just a bunch of excuses. FL lost players due to countless bad decisions. Like fucking up the economy, being too strict on rules inhibiting aggressiveRP and reducing performance. All the kinky, asslicking cringe role-players stayed - the players left.


Quote:You can try and say "you have absolutely no intuition of what FL used to be before", but I was literally there.
Ok? I was too. And we disagree. I think you are delusional in this matter.


Quote:You've got your rose tinted glasses on, trying to remember the "good old days"
Okay. How many times do I have to hear this?
It must be current managements "go-to" phrase.

Quote:that only existed because the community made it so, and to try and ignore that is so fucking disrespectful to the hundreds of people who made the community what it was.

Such an obvious statement. Of course the community made it what it was. We just disagree about how the community was and what made FL great. Such a cheap stab.


Quote:insult on the person engaging in good faith. Crazy.

I don't care what the fuck you do in life, learn to write coherently. For fucks sake.

After reading this take I dont think you even played back in 2011. Back then admin team removed aggressiverp to the point if you had a high kill count you were getting banned. There were no blacklists yet so if you killed someone you were banned. If you didnt yell raid you were banned. You were as good as permed if you had more than 5 bans. I can go on from my experience of an overly aggressive player at that time. The passiverp was nothing crazy at the time either. It was all simple shops and clan stuff. Corleone was the peak RP at that point. There wasnt many massive dupe style events because those crashed the server, the gamemode has always sucked, there was little in terms of development, and that was fine at that point because people got on and did the simple stuff.

I dont agree with really anything that is going on here, but you are so far off yourself with your assessment that I question you were even there. If this server ever comes back (Which I dont see happening) there needs to be a bigger crackdown on the aggressiverp, not even more loose. A player like Frost wouldn't have even made it to 200 hours in old FL in what you are describing as "peak FL"

RE: Longevity - Haarek - 07-07-2024

(07-07-2024, 03:53 PM)Fultz Wrote:
(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
(07-03-2024, 10:31 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: What made FL a good basis for roleplay was the fact it had one of the strongest communities of roleplayers, for a non-serious roleplay community. The gamemode was a pile of shit that let you do like, two things at most, but people worked with and around it to interact and build their roleplays.
  • BlackDog's prisons camps, done outside of the gamemode, the President would order police to drive to some random camp.
  • Safira's sex / wedding RPs, literally had nothing to do with the gamemode.
  • Vauld's server events? Almost all of that was player interaction, no use of gamemode systems apart from like, broadcasts.
  • Killjoy / Eisehorn's Clan RPs, literally having elements which happened off-server, because it was down to interactions.
  • Dr KuLa with his iconic "surrender now, I am heavily armed". The only gamemode system there is having a gun.
  • ForceGhost and Co with their Givens RP, literally relying on RP interactions.
  • So many hundreds of events, boiling down to builds and RP interaction.

Aha, saying the game mode was a pile of shit is simply not true. It wasn't. It didn't have all the features we now regard as inherent and it crashed and broke a lot, but it surely was completely playable. And we had good developers. You are correct in that it was the people who made FL who it was - but more than anything it was the staff team. What FL had back then was a large influx of new players that were retained.

Some of the events / people you listed are (By the way) ridiculous - because we both know that is not what made FL popular - because a large majority of all FL players were aggressive RPérs basing at UM, or police or swat. This dyings community persistence in catering to passiveRP is ignorant and self destructive - as passiveRP came as a reaction to the aggressive. If you performed passiveRP on FL you were regarded as special - a top of the cut - but for this to be possible you will need to have a large player base of aggressive RPérs. I have outlined such thoughts countless times in earlier posts - but I doubt you have read them.

What FL needs to be successful is a short join time (Especially in this time and age) - good performance (High FPS) - visibility in the server browser (At all costs), a fixed economy and a catering towards aggressive RP (properly implemented).

Quote:The gamemode is a canvas for roleplayers to paint on, but what can the gamemode do if there are no roleplayers?

No. Canvas to paint on my ass. What the fuck? It is a place to go grow weed, print money, take people hostage and raid.

You see, you have completely lost sight of the true nature of this game mode - and so have your companions. That is also why this place will never be revived without a proper management change.

Quote:But that didn't happen, we lost the roleplayers, to age, to other commitments, to toxicity, for a lack of things to do.
Just a bunch of excuses. FL lost players due to countless bad decisions. Like fucking up the economy, being too strict on rules inhibiting aggressiveRP and reducing performance. All the kinky, asslicking cringe role-players stayed - the players left.


Quote:You can try and say "you have absolutely no intuition of what FL used to be before", but I was literally there.
Ok? I was too. And we disagree. I think you are delusional in this matter.


Quote:You've got your rose tinted glasses on, trying to remember the "good old days"
Okay. How many times do I have to hear this?
It must be current managements "go-to" phrase.

Quote:that only existed because the community made it so, and to try and ignore that is so fucking disrespectful to the hundreds of people who made the community what it was.

Such an obvious statement. Of course the community made it what it was. We just disagree about how the community was and what made FL great. Such a cheap stab.


Quote:insult on the person engaging in good faith. Crazy.

I don't care what the fuck you do in life, learn to write coherently. For fucks sake.
Back then admin team removed aggressiverp to the point if you had a high kill count you were getting banned. There were no blacklists yet so if you killed someone you were banned. If you didnt yell raid you were banned. You were as good as permed if you had more than 5 bans. I can go on from my experience of an overly aggressive player at that time.

Why would I explicit anything from 2011 if I joined late september that year? You can say I am too far off on my assessment but fact is I was there 2012 and only did agressive RP. Point is we followed the rules - where your examples clearly don’t. You're acting as though aggressive RP is inherently bad, but it isn’t. Even then, we had to follow strict rules. If this server is ever to be revived, there needs to be a hard incentive on aggressiveRP to get a playercount (Among other things). It is really not that hard to understand - and I would also expect one of your caliber to understand that.

RE: Longevity - Haarek - 07-08-2024

(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
(07-03-2024, 10:31 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: What made FL a good basis for roleplay was the fact it had one of the strongest communities of roleplayers, for a non-serious roleplay community. The gamemode was a pile of shit that let you do like, two things at most, but people worked with and around it to interact and build their roleplays.
  • BlackDog's prisons camps, done outside of the gamemode, the President would order police to drive to some random camp.
  • Safira's sex / wedding RPs, literally had nothing to do with the gamemode.
  • Vauld's server events? Almost all of that was player interaction, no use of gamemode systems apart from like, broadcasts.
  • Killjoy / Eisehorn's Clan RPs, literally having elements which happened off-server, because it was down to interactions.
  • Dr KuLa with his iconic "surrender now, I am heavily armed". The only gamemode system there is having a gun.
  • ForceGhost and Co with their Givens RP, literally relying on RP interactions.
  • So many hundreds of events, boiling down to builds and RP interaction.

Aha, saying the game mode was a pile of shit is simply not true. It wasn't. It didn't have all the features we now regard as inherent and it crashed and broke a lot, but it surely was completely playable.


First of all, I appreciate your humor. You can be quote poetic at times.


(07-07-2024, 03:10 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: It's such a great gamemode when it's constantly fucking breaking and crashing. Do you hear yourself?

It was basically sandbox with cars and guns.

A solid economy with cars, suits and guns that incentivised players to create money by illegal means. Your attempt of nut shelling the game mode is flawed but completely the right idea - the game mode isn't supposed to be complicated: it is based on a simple cops and robbers premise. There is a reason all jobs on the F1 marketplace is catered towards aggressiveRP (Except the chef). Why do you think even the doctor sells items beneficial for aggressiveRP? The game mode is built around this simple premise.

(07-07-2024, 03:10 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote:
(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote: You are correct in that it was the people who made FL who it was - but more than anything it was the staff team. What FL had back then was a large influx of new players that were retained.
But we didn't, we had a 19% retention rate during the peak of Garry's Mod, where Roleplaying gamemodes were popular.

And what makes you think a 20% retention rate is bad?
And what do you think the retention rate was in 2020 even? 20% sounds awfully good.

And where are you getting these numbers?


(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote: Some of the events / people you listed are (By the way) ridiculous - because we both know that is not what made FL popular - because a large majority of all FL players were aggressive RPérs basing at UM, or police or swat.

(07-07-2024, 03:10 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote: Damn, that's still the fucking community, the people. Not the gamemode. The people setting up groups and clans, building defences.

But what does the gamemode do for them?
Guns. And a raid reason (contraband, weed, whatever).

Even when you try and pull a fast one and swing around the point, you're still reinforcing what I say. That's crazy.

Honestly, I don't understand what the fuck you are trying to say here. I think we agree on this point, and I don't want to argue semantics.

However, I think it is important to keep in mind that the community is greatly affected by the meta of the gamemode. For example: you cannot expect people to be making risky bases and printing money if farming is a far more efficient way to make money. With all your fancy gamemode implementations in the hopes of attracting and retaining players you have destroyed the gameplay meta and the economy.

(07-07-2024, 03:10 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote:
(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote: This dyings community persistence in catering to passiveRP is ignorant and self destructive - as passiveRP came as a reaction to the aggressive. If you performed passiveRP on FL you were regarded as special - a top of the cut - but for this to be possible you will need to have a large player base of aggressive RPérs.
Passive RP only occurs because of aggressive RP? Yeah, damn babe some vagina just got raided down the street, let's do some ERP so I can raid that fat pussy.

Though I do appreciate the humour, I think you missed my point. I am simply saying that PassiveRP is not as attractive if everyone does it. Most people have always used it as a means to stand out and get recognition in the community. However for there to be a proper schism and recognition there also needs to be a aggressiveRP community. I realise this is a subjective opinion - it is my understanding of FL´s dynamic and I am fairly confident in it. 

[/quote]




Quote:Short join time, so long as it doesn't effect content. We've removed so much shit people used for the sake of join time.

Well, good job. Remove more shit. Fucking get it done. Purge the content size. This has been a main request from me for years.

Quote:Good performance, yeah, no shit.
Good performance means in many cases to sacrifice quality models for lower quality ones. Like degrading the quality of cars and replacing them with lower polygon models. Are you willing to do that? Probably not.

You are acting like this is an easy task to do but in reality it involves making hard decisions of what should be removed and what should stay.

Quote:Visibility in the browser is literally 99% from player counts, which yet-a-fucking-gain comes back to the community.

I agree that community is a factor, but not nearly as much as you lead on. People stay because they enjoy the game mode and feel they have a reason to come back - good performance, low join time and an active server with a lot happening makes people want to keep playing.
It isn't that complicated - in the last years of FL you literally incentivised just standing still and fucking farming to make millions of dollars.

There are no rocket science solutions here - It is mostly just common sense if you understand the gamemode.
And most of all it doesn't need to be perfect.
Quote:Fixed economy is fine, but it was players constantly bitching and not supporting anything to fix the economy which prevented us from doing shit until the relaunch. People wanted VCMod, so we couldn't do anything with repairs or fuel. People shot down insurance and other costs for cars. People wanted presents, which fucked the economy more.

Newsflash. The community isn't a good metric for what needs to be done.
New additions needs to be assessed and understood to make sure they don't fuck the meta of the gamemode.

Quote:Catering towards aggressive RP meaning what? 80% of the staff team was made up of aggressive RPers, the biggest clans were all agressive, so many changes have been nutered to cater to the aggressive RPers, to the detriment of passive RP.

When I mention fronting aggressiveRP I mean to let it be the main incentive to generate funds in the game mode. Staff incentives are good, but it doesn't mean anything if the meta of the gamemode doesn't inherently front aggressiveRP.


Quote:Watch your back when you move those goal-posts, you might blow your back up.
We were talking about players. Passive RPers used the gamemode to RP on, do you disagree with that?
Or are you so blind to other people's perspective that all you can see is you tounge-punching a gun barrel?

Look, we both agree passiveRP is important - but if you want to build a server that has a strong playercount you need to cater to the majority of your playerbase. In addition, your newcomers will and always have gravitated towards aggressiveRP when first starting out.  Even Fultz, who seems to have smoked way too much marijuana lately seems to remember starting out in aggressiveRP. AggressiveRP is a very common rite of passage and is most likely the leading cause of player retention.

(07-07-2024, 03:10 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote:
(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
Quote:But that didn't happen, we lost the roleplayers, to age, to other commitments, to toxicity, for a lack of things to do.
Just a bunch of excuses. FL lost players due to countless bad decisions. Like fucking up the economy, being too strict on rules inhibiting aggressiveRP and reducing performance. All the kinky, asslicking cringe role-players stayed - the players left.

Quote:And yeah, rules like "don't make your bases give people fucking stokes when you look at them", fucking crazy rules.
I mean, I'd gladly discuss this rule with you, but realise this isn't the place nor time.

Quote:And reducing performance was because we added new systems, that people asked for in suggestions. We should have just ignored the community too, 15/10 plan from Haarek again.

I don't know what to tell you? I guess if the community told you to stick your finger up your ass with a majority vote, you would do that too?







Quote:I think you were so enclosed in a silo that all you can think about is the good old days back when all you had was guns and a physgun, but you've been willing to ignore the past 8 years to stay in that simple idea you've got in your head. Call me delusional all you like, doesn't change that.

Feel free to complicate things all you want - look where it's gotten FL. Ridiculous decisions have been taken over the years and I say it because it is true. Horrible decisions that I fear are way too late to correct.



Quote:Or are you seriously getting mad about hearing the same phrase twice in half a year?

You forgot Discord. Regardless, it is a cheap phrase to disregard what worked in the past as something that has been tried and tested to death. Resulting in never learning from past success and chucking it down to: "It can't be done - things were different before."


(07-07-2024, 03:10 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote:
(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
Quote:that only existed because the community made it so, and to try and ignore that is so fucking disrespectful to the hundreds of people who made the community what it was.

Such an obvious statement. Of course the community made it what it was. We just disagree about how the community was and what made FL great. Such a cheap stab.
An obvious statement that you ignored, trying to pin everything on the gamemode. Calling it a cheap stab when you're the one who ignored it to begin with in so fucking dishonest.

Look, I understand why you are so flustered here, and understand how I can seem contradicting.


(07-07-2024, 03:10 PM)Doctor Internet Wrote:
(07-07-2024, 12:28 AM)Haarek Wrote:
Quote:insult on the person engaging in good faith. Crazy.

I don't care what the fuck you do in life, learn to write coherently. For fucks sake.
It's a run-on sentence, but it's understandable; the writing is coherent, put the fucking effort in.

So give your staff some fucking grammar lessons.

RE: Longevity - Luna - 07-08-2024

sorry English is my 3 1/2th language

RE: Longevity - Pollux - 07-08-2024

(07-08-2024, 12:14 AM)Haarek Wrote: -snip-

I don't see the point in trying to find something to blame, especially since it's not really any one big factor. It's easy to blame change, but you're ignoring that any change we did was a correction in response to any noticeable decline. FL hasn't really ever had proactive development, everything done was mostly always a reaction to a drop in players, and our corrections were usually quite successful considering how long we managed to keep it going for, even if a little short sighted.

One of the things FL did well was catering for a wide range of players. While there were many players like you who enjoyed aggressiveRP many years ago, there were just as many like me who didn't really touch it until much later, and some who have never gotten involved. The mistake you're making here is assuming everyone is like you, which isn't the case at all. The aggressiveRP side was definitely the loudest, but it wasn't even close to being the largest. FL has always had a somewhat fragile balance between these very different groups of players, and I don't think we did a good job at maintaining that.

I know what we're doing is a shot in the dark, and you've definitely made your opinion on some parts known. While feedback is important, I don't see a situation where you're ever going to be happy with our direction, at least given the discussion so far. There are things we agree on, such as economy stuff, but I heavily disagree with your assumption that the server was always aggressiveRP, and that we should primarily cater towards that. Doing so would come at the cost of the other groups who have already been neglected quite a bit. The balance has definitely shifted towards aggressiveRP and the adjustment back towards the middle might be disappointing for some, however, it's a necessary change for the enjoyment of others. It's easy to forget that as fun as aggressiveRP can be, it often comes at the cost of someone else's enjoyment. It'll be hard to change that, but I don't think it's impossible. My personal view is that aggressiveRP should involve more of the RP part, rather than it being the TDM it usually is. We are ultimately a roleplay server, and many of the changes being made are to try and correct us back to that.

A lot of the changes planned are also focusing on the passiveRP and govRP side, which will help them be as "fun" and rewarding as the current aggressiveRP gameplay loops are to those who do that. The deciding factor shouldn't be how much money something will make or one loop being too boring, but rather what someone actually wants to do. If someone feels like opening a shop, we should have the gameplay loop to support that and make it just as fun to them as raids may be to someone who does aggressiveRP. The key part for me is everything still being fun, as that's what keeps someone on the server. Some of the changes to do that may be seen as drastic but it's definitely worth trying if it may result in FL being more enjoyable to most.

We have an ultimate vision for how we see FL working, and while feedback is important and will help shape that vision, it can't completely change it. We're not going to try and please everyone, as doing so is an impossible task, and is definitely a mistake FL made many times in the past. I'm afraid that you may be part of the group that can't be pleased, at least given the discussion in here so far, and there isn't much that can be done to resolve that. The most I can hope for is that you won't completely hate it, but at least find it somewhat tolerable.

I'm going to move this to discussions, as we're not going to be opening up the old gamemode, but I don't want to move this to declined since the recent discussions are more generic rather than being related to the suggestion.

RE: Longevity - gin - 07-08-2024

Most people have just grown up



RE: Longevity - Panda - 07-08-2024

Why not just end the community? Launching an “older” gamemode won’t work, and whenever the new one comes back in another year, or ever, why waste your time? No one seems to care that much anyway. Stop all the bullshit and just close the community if that’s what’s going to happen anyway.